Upgrade Water Softener Tank Size

[liveanddiyinla]

Good Folks,

I have super low flow from my softener with 10x54 tank and Fleck 5600 Econominder, which has worked flawlessly after I rebuilt it in 2015 and then replaced the resin in 2018. Pressure is good, just the flow is very low and I want to replace the resin.

I’m planning on changing to a 13x54 or 12x52 tank for ease of putting a full 2ft3 of resin beads and also for increased salt efficiency.
I’ve read that the 13x54 is the true size for 2ft3 of resin(12x52 is 1.75ft3), and also conveniently the same height as my current tank - so no need to cut and resolder copper.

Please give me some advice or tips about this change.
Some questions:
I’m leaning towards 13x54, but 12x52 is more commonly available and less expensive.

If going 13x54, do I need to add gravel? I didn’t add gravel to the 10x54 and neither did the company that installed it. Worked fine, but was reading that the gravel could help in some ways.

I plan to change DLFC disc to 3.5GPM on the Econominder. Anything else?

Eventually, I’ll switch to a 5800SXT, a WS1, or whatever is good at that time. The Econominder has been bulletproof for us so far, so if it ain’t broke…

Thanks for any advice that you can provide.

 

[Reach4]

How often do you regen?

Make sure you use 10% crosslinked resin with your city water.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[liveanddiyinla]

How often do you regen?

Make sure you use 10% crosslinked resin with your city water.

We are regenerating 9-10 days depending on the amount of kids’ games, matches, and meets.. Using about a 40lb bag of Morton’s salt per month.

I expected the resin that I replaced in 2018 to last 10 years, but it seems that the chlorine is on the high side upon checking the city’s water report. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Chlorine residual (mg/l): 2.7
TDS(mg/l): 200

Any thoughts on 12x52 versus 13x54?
This current tank has lasted 25 years, and probably will last another 25. But, we don’t have space for an additional carbon tank and want to make it easier to replace with a full 2ft3 of 10% crosslinked resin for however many times that I have left.

 

[Reach4]

9 days is not so bad. I would stay with that. But I understand that it is irritating that the cost per cuft of resin is much higher for 1.5 vs 2 cuft. Maybe figure to store 0.5 cuft for 8 to 10 years. I don't know what the right way to store that would be.

So the current tank is probably 10x54. For 12x52, you would be shortening the distributor tube. I suspect your distributor tube is 1.05 OD.

You should use gravel, but as the tank gets bigger, the more important it is to have gravel. I think 15 pounds for a 10 inch tank, and I would think about 1.44 times as much for a 12 inch tank.

 

[liveanddiyinla]

Thanks @Reach4. You’re right, “irritating” is spot on. Who wants to store 0.5ft3 for 8+ years?! Not me.

Since I already have a 10x54, I’m planning on getting a 13x54 to keep the current plumbing height(fingers crossed). Distributor tube should be the same length as well, but I’m thinking of just replacing the tube and distributor anyway. It was a cracked distributor that made a mess and taught me a lesson about softeners last time.

Gravel seemed like hassle, so I didn’t put it in last time. Do you just throw out the gravel with the spent resin when you rebed?

I read a chart that suggest 35lbs of gravel for a 13x54. With gravel plus 2ft3 of resin plus tank and valve and water, this softener is going to be over 150lbs!

I’ll probably use Aldex C-800X10. It’s made in Canada and the price looks to be half the price of Purolite C100CX10. Wish I could have ordered it preloaded in the 13x54 tank.

Just checked my tank and verified that I have the extra 1.5in all around for the 13” tank. I’ll update when I get this done in the next week or so.

 

[Reach4]

I only changed media once. I threw out the original gravel. Seems possible to try to wash it out of resin. I was working with a little heavier resin.

 

[Bannerman]

The appropriate tank size for 2.0 ft3 resin will be 12" X 52". That tank's total volume capacity is 3.1ft3 including both domes. To provide sufficient freeboard space for up to 50% media expansion during backwashing, the media volume is calculated to be 1.9ft3 because the top and bottom domes are not utilized for calculating media volume, but in practice, the upper dome will provide an increase in freeboard space which will permit the full 2ft3 resin to be installed without loss of resin during backwashing.

Gravel provides multiple benefits and so is recommended for almost every softener that utilizes a 'standard' media tank (Standard = not an Enpress tank equipped with a Vortech bottom distribution plate).

For a 10" diameter tank, 15 lbs of 1/8 X 1/16 bedding gravel will be sufficient to fill the bottom dome, or 20 lbs for 12" diameter, and 25 lbs for 13". A gravel filled bottom dome will ensure the resin will remain elevated above the bottom basket screen, which will permit more installed resin to be utilized for hardness reduction. Without gravel, the 0.13ft3 resin sitting within the bottom dome (12" tank), equal to or below the level of the bottom screen, will provide minimal/no hardness reduction benefit.

Hardness removal is not an instantaneous process, but requires sufficient contact with the resin for hardness removal to fully occur. The usual recommended tank size for each media volume (ie: 10" diameter for 1.5 ft3, 12" for 2.0ft3, 13" for 2.5ft3), will provide the appropriate resin depth between the top of the resin column to the bottom so as to achieve optimal hardness reduction contact. For example, 2.0ft3 resin within a 12"X52" tank will result in a column of resin approx 35" tall whereas, installing 2.0ft3 resin in a 13" diameter tank, will significantly reduce the column height, which will result in reduced resin contact, and therefore, increased hardness leakage through the softener.

Softening resin is commonly available in 0.5 & 1.0ft3 package sizes.

I’m planning on changing to a 13x54 or 12x52 tank for ease of putting a full 2ft3 of resin beads and also for increased salt efficiency.

Tank size does not govern salt efficiency. Your 1.5ft3 softener, maybe programmed to achieve identical salt efficiency as a 2.0ft3, 2.5ft3 or 10ft3 softener, but the usable capacity each cycle, and the effective flow rate that is supported, will be lower compared to a softener containing a larger quantity of resin.

Suggest posting photos (low resolution) showing your Econominder's Capacity dial, and also the salt setting dial located on the rear of the controller.

Recommend utilizing a Hach 5B Total Hardness test kit to measure the hardness level of the municipal water supplied to your home. The 5B may also be utilized to measure the hardness of the water exiting from the softener, which will provide a method to periodically measure how effective your softener is functioning.

To assist with programming, we will also need to know your usual soft water consumption if known, otherwise, state the number of users so consumption maybe estimated.

 

[Bannerman]

super low flow from my softener .... Pressure is good, just the flow is very low

I expect you are referring to Static Pressure, not the pressure after the softener while water is actually flowing to fixtures.

A significantly low flow rate through a softener, is the most common symptom of damaged resin, mainly resulting from constant chorine exposure.. This is usually verified by the flow rate becoming restored upon bypassing the softener.

Many municipal water suppliers have been adopting chloramine (chlorine + ammonia) for disinfection. Because chloramine strength will remain high throughout t he distribution systems, and as it is more aggressive compared to plain chlorine, it will more rapidly degrade softening resin regardless of whether the resin is regular 8% or premium 10% crosslinked.

Regardless of whether chlorine or chloramine is utilized, consider a carbon filtration sysyem prior to the softener. GAC carbon is effective at removing plain chlorine while Catalytic Carbon will be more effective for removing chloramine. Either type of carbon media, will also effectively reduce/remove harmful disinfection byproducts (DBPs) such as THMs and HAAs. While a backwashing system containing 1.5 ft3 GAC for chlorine or 2ft3 CC for removing chloramine is the minimum recommended amounts, larger quantities of either media will provide increased contact time for enhaced contaminant removal, or will support higher flow rates to fixtures.

I plan to change DLFC disc to 3.5GPM

A 3.5 gpm DLFC is usually appropriate for a 12" diameter softener tank.

The recommended backwash flow rate (same as drain flow rate) for softening resin is 4-5 gpm per square foot. For a 12" tank, this calculates to be 3.1 - 3.9 gpm, resulting in a median DLFC flow rate of 3.5 gpm.

For a 13" tank, this will equal 3.7 - 4.6 gpm, thereby resuling in a median of 4.15 gpm.

The drain rates stated are based on a water supply temperature of 60-69F. If your water is warmer such as 70-79F, water will be less dense, so the DLFC flow rate should be increased by 10% to achieve the same amount of media lift and expansion during each backwash cycle.

It was a cracked distributor that made a mess and taught me a lesson about softeners last time. ... Gravel seemed like hassle, so I didn’t put it in last time.

A quality bottom distributor screen such as produced by Fleck or Clack, is robust and less likely to be damaged compared to many less expensive screens.

One of the additional benefits of using bedding gravel, is the bottom screen will be buried and surrounded by larger and heavier gravel granules. Because the gravel will keep the much smaller and lighter resin granules elevated above and away from the bottom screen, resin will be less likely to escape from the softener into the home's plumbing system in the event the bottom screen is ever compromised.

 

[liveanddiyinla]

With some helpful guidance from @Reach4, I was able to order 1.5ft3 of CNS10 and received it last week. The full bag was slightly open on top, but not much resin escaped. It’s easy to spot since it’s black, as opposed to the golden yellow of CG8 - which I found is what I used last time. The 0.5ft3 box was also busted at a corner, but fortunately the bag was intact. It seems like CNS10 beads are a bit smaller than CG8 beads, but the distributor cap had no issues with either.

I had the time to rebed the tank today.

You can see from my pictures that the CG8 was a little degraded and also the tank was overfilled. Do not overfill the tank with resin! It literally took an additional hour to clean the overfilled tank because of the resin that kept spewing out and me trying to keep it tidy. If I had known that this resin volcano was going to erupt, I would have waited to remove the valve until I had the tank on a tarp.

I plan to move the salt setting to 12lbs for the 1.5ft3 that was installed.

My settings from the front dial seem off, since my hardness is between 3-10 depending on time of year. It’s 5gpg right now. Anyway, I’ll figure out why I set it this way last time and then go from there.

Pressure is back to normal, and feels great! Thanks for all your help @Reach4 and @Bannerman!

 

[Bannerman]

the CG8 was a little degraded and also the tank was overfilled. Do not overfill the tank with resin!

Resin swell and erruption out through the tank opening, is a common result of chlorine damage, not from overfilling.

hardness is between 3-10 depending on time of year. It’s 5gpg right now

You won't know when the hardness level changes, and it may change multiple times throughout an average day. If basing settings on 5 gpg, when the incoming hardness is higher than 5, then additional resin capacity will become depleted than will be regenerated.

Since it seems the highest hardness level possible is 10 gpg, you should be calculating the Gallons Capacity setting based on 10 gpg or slightly higher.

 

[liveanddiyinla]

Resin swell and erruption out through the tank opening, is a common result of chlorine damage, not from overfilling.

Good to know! Now, I don’t feel like I did it wrong last time