Updating a 4 home class B well system question

[fireman-175]

Howdy folks, I am the homeowner tasked with being the Purveyor/manager of our shared well. Currently, we have 4 homes that use the well for residential and yard sprinkler system irrigation. We only run one system at a time, pulling around 15 gpm. My pump is rated at 35 gpm. Lots of water, in fact is artisians often. We run two 119 gallon bladder tanks, one a Challenger and one a Well-Rite that needs replacing because it if 2/3 full of water. I have the pressure switch set at 45/65 (67 on gage). The pump runs for about 3 minutes during the cycle.

Do you feel this is a good set up? I have to replace the one bladder tank. Our water is slightly hard, but no iron. I read about CSV, etc. Would a different set up be less stressful on the pump, yet last as long as the current setup has? Lastly, I read about some tanks that have a flushing design. any thoughts on those?

 

[Reach4]

Nice setup with the redundancy in my non-professional opinion.

Well-X-Trol is the top name in pressure tanks, although they have a premium price.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Boycedrilling]

Download the group B system design manual from the Washington state department of health's website. It has information on how a CSV may be used in a group B system. Yes, CSV's are allowed on a class B system.

You have to keep in mind you have 2 flows you have to meet. There is a 20 minute demand for peak periods. It will do around 25-30 go for a minimum period of 20 minutes. If the well cannot supply that instantaneous demand, it must be made up thru storage. You also gave a continuous minimum flow rate from the well. The manual also spells out the required amount of runtime for the pump. And the maximum number of starts.

Read the manual and then ask questions. It doesn't matter what someone else recommends, if Washington state doesn't allow it. You also need to educate yourself on the water quality testing requirements and frequency required.

What fire district are you with. I'm a volunteer with Grant county District 10.

 

[fireman-175]

Thanks, many years ago I volunteered with King 40, then got hired full time. I now work for Renton Regional Fire Authority, an RFA (giant fire district). Thanks for stepping up in Grant county. I'm good on the water testing and so far, it tests great. I will check on the group B designs. This system has been around for 23 years. Would one recommend a commercial grade or stick with a good residential tank for my application?

 

[Boycedrilling]

Residential tanks are acceptable for your application. Tanks larger that 119 gallons have to be asme approved. You go from a tank costing hundreds of dollars to a tank costing thousands of dollars. It is acceptable to install multiple tanks. A system I installed a year ago for Pasco school district has four 88 gallon pressure tanks, per the engineer's design.

A couple of years ago DOH, changed the rules on operation of a public system. Any new system is required to be operated by a Satellite Management Agency. They mainly make sure that the reporting and testing requirements are met.

For those that are not familiar, the state of Washington regulates public water systems. There are group A and B systems, depending upon the number of homes served or number of people that use the water in a non residential system, like a restaurant or motel. For residential systems a group B system is 3 to 15 residences. Over 15 residences is a group A system. In most counties 2 homes can be on a private well without the State being involved. They do have to have a joint operating agreement thou. A Non residential system might be a group transient non community system like a restaurant. Or it could be a group non transient non community system like farm worker housing wher they don't live there permanently.

 

[fireman-175]

I am interested in using the CSV setup. Can I install it "before" the good 119 gallon Challenger PC366R tank and just remove the bad tank? That way I would have like 30 gallons in reserve if the power fails, too. Seems like this would be a decent working system and protect the pump from cycling during showers and sprinklers. I read the DOH manual and it indicates I would need 1 119 gallon tank. They also recommended I contact the pump manufacturer to ensure it will work with the CSV.

 

[Valveman]

Yes you can use a CSV and the one good 119 gallon tank you have is all that you will need. The CSV will make the pump cycle less, deliver better pressure, and last longer. It will also make the bladder in the tank last longer, as continually going up and down as the pump cycles over and over is what broke the bladder in the first place.

A pressure tank of any kind is not good for water storage or peak demands. The tank is effectively empty when the pump comes on. So the pump has to be large enough for peak demands as whatever the pump produces is all you get.

With the proper pre-charge (38 PSI) a 119 gallon tank only holds about 30 gallons of water, and you cannot count on it having even a gallon when the power goes off, as the pressure gauge could just as easily be at 41 instead of 60 when that happens. You can lower the pre-charge in a bladder type tank (maybe 25) and have a little water stored to help when the power goes off or the pump can't make peak demands. Lowering the pre-charge in the tank makes it deliver less draw down or gallons between pump cycles and over stretches the bladder. Not worth the trouble for only having five gallons available when the power goes off or to help with peak demands.

A five gallon bucket in the closet or a generator are the only sure ways to have water when the power is off.