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Scott Baxla

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Has anyone seen a tub fill spout like this? (pics below). Its very unusual in a few ways - very low profile and no sharp edges & the water in the tub can be filled to the rim of the tub (fill spout submerged) since the spout blocks the overflow and somehow sealed. (I've taken a deep bath in the tub pictured a few years ago and recently got the owner to send me pics. I searched online for it all day yesterday and can't find anything close. She says the 3 lever delta handle set (not pictured) was installed right after she bought the house, but the porcelain single lever mixing valve (disfunctional at this point?) and the spout were already there, so maybe they are associated with each other? I'll be putting in a floor drain and the installation is not being inspected, so I'm okay with not having an overflow.

tub spout.jpg


Mix valve.jpg
 

Reach4

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It would not be permitted to be installed today because it lacks an air gap. It could allow bath water to be sucked into the potable water pipes under some failure conditions.
 
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hj

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That was part of a "3 handle tub filler", but the center handle was connected to a "remote overflow" behind the wall. I was a fairly common item in the 20s, but was banned when back siphonage became an issue.

tub-1926-wa.jpg
 

Scott Baxla

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Thanks HJ & Reach. I had not even considered back siphoning. Would a check valve on the supply side take care of that? (similar to what we have to put on exterior hose spigots)
 

Reach4

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A check valve might solve the siphonage problem in practice, I think a more complex arrangement might be required to meet regulations. A vacuum breaker might solve the potential problem in practice, depending on how the pipes are run and the altitudes of stuff.

I am not saying that having that remain in service is illegal. There is grandfathering that goes on where existing stuff is usually not required to be updated if it met regulations when it was installed. Do close the valves when the water pressure is off and the spout is under water.
 

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Thanks Reach! I'll look into the vacuum breaker. Never heard of it, but I'm picturing the function. This would be a new install of an antique 48" clawfoot tub that is not being inspected, so legality is not an issue, but I would want it to be safe. Meanwhile, I'm trying to identify and locate the part. There will be lots of gyrations to get this installation to work - another thread on feedback for installing a clawfoot as a drop in - with a shower... i.e. have to drain the deck surrounding the tub (treat it like a shower floor or a large sink...)
 

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I have one of these and can confirm it's a speakman. ca. 1920. N I am dreading having a problem with it. I managed to replace the valve seats in the tub filler with help from folks on this forum. I worry about water getting behind it, but so far the seal seems to be holding after 100 years. I don't worry about siphoning, although I guess it is a risk. It works totally fine, and looks great. If you find a source please post it here. I wonder if a brass casting shop could make a copy.
 

Terry

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I don't worry about siphoning, although I guess it is a risk. It works totally fine, and looks great.

Nobody ever worries about siphoning into the common water supply. That's why codes were developed and plumbers became licensed. In the past there were plenty of instances of the public water supplies becoming contaminated. The most common times it happens is with restaurants. They sometimes jerry rig hoses to faucets for cleaning up and reports of people in nearby homes experiencing the result of that. Doesn't happen every time, and it does take a circumstance where everything lines up, but it does and has happened.

When I travel to other countries, they pound on you to only drink water from a bottle that has the seal intact. Even then you may get sick.
I'm very careful not to eat greens that haven't been cooked first.

india_1537.jpg
 
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DIYorBust

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Well the tub needs to be full and the faucet open while the pressure fails, and even then the pipes between the tub spout and the faucet valve need to be primed, and the valves are well above the tub. Is it the best design? Probably not. Is a siphon event going to happen? Extremely unlikely, and even if a little tub water backflows it probably just flushes out next time we run the tap. It's not great but it's not like leaving a hose in a muddy puddle in the yard which people do all the time with no siphon breaker. But your comment is well taken and next time I work on it I may try to put a vaccum breaker or backflow prevent on the tub. I worry that the vaccum breaker could leak, and a simple check probably won't close all the way with such low pressure.

Anyway I'm not sure if this can be easily done in cast brass, but if you can explain how to get it off and back on, and it doesn't seem too risky for me I'd consider sending it to ball and ball or a similar company for replication.
 

Scott Baxla

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Thanks DIY & Terry. This will be a new installation, so I'll have to look into the vacuum breaker option to see how that works. I was thinking spring loaded check valve, and had never heard of a vacuum breaker. I do want to be safe. I'm way into "healthy home" issues and clean water supply assurance seems important (maybe not so important - until its a problem, and then...). Being a new installation with walls open, this would be the window to do it - if I can find the part. Yes, having a casting company replicate it might be an option, but I'm pretty sure I'd have to have one to be able to replicate it.
 

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I was thinking spring loaded check valve, and had never heard of a vacuum breaker.
A spring loaded check valve should work.

I suspect a vacuum breaker could fail some day and emit some water. So ideally, if you had one, that would be in a place where that would not be a big deal. But the place needs to be a fairly high place relative to the piping.

Vacuum breakers should be put on water heaters that are located on an upper floor or in an attic.
 

Scott Baxla

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Thanks for staying with this Reach. I was thinking the spring loaded check valve should work too. (and certainly turning valves off when not filling the tub) And still considering "unicorn events" of something like power failure, simultaneous with another opening in the system to relieve the pressure, all when the tub is already full over the fill spout and fill pipe above spout full of water because there is no air admittance available. Regardless, the actual valve will be in the wall above the rim of the tub - an interior wall that could be accessible from the other side, so if I figure out what a vacuum breaker is it might still be worth considering. I'm not having this installation inspected, but the whole idea of a small deep tub with a low profile fill spout seems pretty sweet to me and it would be nice to know how to do it somewhere that was being inspected - i.e. make it legal as well as functionally performing appropriately. (To bad that's not always the same.)
 

Fitter30

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Yes I've seen that spouts before. 6 family flat in saint louis built in 1929 that one of my uncles built. The only evice that would be legal in saint louis would be a double backflow preventer like a watts 007 or 009.
 

DIYorBust

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Those are expensive, I have 2 of these tubs and rarely use the bath so 400 bucks seems steep. But if you're doing one, and the customer is paying, perhaps it's worth it for piece of mind.
 

Sylvan

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Many of my accounts had mansions built in 1921

I disconnect the water supply behind the wall and cap the line for the tub spot and install a Delta anti scald shower body.

This allows the system to be piped legally and prevents scalding or back espionage
 

DIYorBust

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Many of my accounts had mansions built in 1921

I disconnect the water supply behind the wall and cap the line for the tub spot and install a Delta anti scald shower body.

This allows the system to be piped legally and prevents scalding or back espionage

Womp, womp.
 

Terry

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Many of my accounts had mansions built in 1921

I disconnect the water supply behind the wall and cap the line for the tub spot and install a Delta anti scald shower body.

This allows the system to be piped legally and prevents scalding or back espionage

That takes care of code and since you are an expert witness in a lot of court cases involving plumbing, you're covering all the bases.
Capping off the tub spout is a great idea. :)
 

Sylvan

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That takes care of code and since you are an expert witness in a lot of court cases involving plumbing, you're covering all the bases.
Capping off the tub spout is a great idea. :)

Terry, I learned by seeing others who made mistakes and pay the price

Ever see any commercials stating " your entitled to" " you deserve the respect" " You got injured someone has to be responsible"

This is sure thing , a lottery is taking a chance 1 in 20 million

A law suit cost nothing to sue someone because of some idiot is too dumb to take personal responsibility

This case had me staying up for weeks with frustration as one new reporter lies and has no facts but this piece of crap reports her fake news and other news stations and new papers post it as gospel because one liar reports it and other take it as gospel without any investigation

Radiators DO NOT EXPLODE, There is NO "HIGH PRESSURE STEAM" used in apartment buildings .

Actually most steam systems operate below 2 PSI so how can it be "high pressure" cause an explosion?

The building had violation not a single one was plumbing related

I am an expert witness against the building but I told the lawyers do not expect me to commit perjury by saying something exploded

Father a known drug addict and low life now becomes a victim WHERE WAS HE when his toddlers were screaming from a steam leak because the air vent some how was removed



https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-borough...arents-suing-nyc-for-radiator-explosion-bronx
 
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