Ultramax or Carlyle (CEFIONTECT?)

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TheNit

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I'm pretty sure that the Ultramax (standard height) is the toilet that I want but it is not available with CEFIONTECT in bone. The Carlyle is the skirted version of the Ultramax and it is available with Sanagaloss in bone. I'm in Canada and the price for the Carlyle is about $140 more than the Ultramax. Is the CEFIONTECT worth the extra money? I don't understand why CEFIONTECT isn't available on more toilets.
 

Jadnashua

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You're paying for the Unifit adapter, the style, and the CEFIONTECT (I think they both come iwth a seat, but not sure). I'd look at the II version. Pricing is up to the individual dealer, so it can vary quite a bit from one to another.

CEFIONTECT is a nice addition, but not a big deal breaker one way or the other.
 

Terry

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Like Jim mentions, the MS604114CEFG Ultramax II has CEFIONTECT and is available in Bone (Almond), Sedona Beige (Biscuit) (Linen) , Colonial White and Cotton White.
The bowl is a little taller.
 

TheNit

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I'm coming from the 3.5 gpf world (American Standard 1984 vintage). After reading this forum, I've been convinced that the G-Max system is the best. No one has ever come out and said that the Double Cyclone is as good or better than G-Max (maybe for bowl rinsing). Would the MAP test be similar for Double Cyclone and the G-Max? I want this toilet to be the "workhorse" or "go to" toilet and nowhere have I read that DC is as good or better than G-Max. I also realize that 1.28 gpf may be the law soon (maybe not in Canada) so if I want a 1.6 gpf I better do it soon. I did use a DC at a store in Buffalo (don't know which) but I can say that it looked a little dirty. I'm just assuming that the G-max with CEFIONTECT would be the best because the CEFIONTECT would help with the bowl rinse.
 
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Terry

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Any 1.6 or less bowl will need more cleaning then a 3.5 gallon.
With the 1.28 or the 1.6, you can hold the handle down for more rinse. The tanks hold about 2.5 gallons.
The 1.28 Drake II gets you 800 grams on the MaP testing, and the Drake EL gives you 900 grams.
500 grams is plenty for the flush.
Some toilets with amazing MaP ratings don't rinse well.

ms604-bike.jpg


TOTO Ultramax II
MS604114CEFG
 
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TheNit

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All of the one-piece "II" toilets are ADA if I want bone and CEFIONTECT. My wife is 5'2" and refuses to get an ADA height toilet. She sat on one and her feet didn't touch the floor. The Carlyle is the only one-piece toilet that gives me that combination unless I forego the CEFIONTECT. Would a "II" double cyclone toliet without CEFIONTECT be as effective as the Carlyle G-Max with CEFIONTECT as far as streaking, etc?
 

Scozzer

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Terry,
Somewhere on this forum you said the Carlyle is the Ultramax with apron. If so is the Ultramax available with a 14" rough-in as is the Carlyle ?
The new toilet will replace a Kohler Rialto which, as you know, has the smallest length of any toilet.
I need more space in front of the toilet so I am thinking of making a recess into the dry wall to accommodate another 2 inches of toilet tank, using a 14" rough-in adapter.
Hope this makes sense to you.
Scozzer
 

Jadnashua

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The Ultramax is only available with a 12" rough-in. The Carlyle uses the Uni-fit adapter...the toilet is the same, you swap the adapter for the one you need to make it fit alternately on 10 or 14" rough-ins...it comes with a 12" one. And, yes, you need to buy the extra UniFit, no tradein on the one in the box.
 

TheNit

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I may end up getting an ADA height toilet for myself and 2 non-ADA height toilets (Supreme and Carlyle) for my wife. Which would have the better flush/cleaning combination, the Ultramax (MS854114S), the Ultramax II (MS604114CEFG) or the Carlyle II (MS614114CEFG)? This toilet would be the workhorse toilet.

Looking at specs, I thought that the only difference between the Carlyle II and the Ultamax II was the skirt and the unifit but MaP testing shows 500 for the Ultramax II and 600 for the Carlyle II. Why would there be a difference?
 

Gary Swart

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Terry has reported many times that any MaP rating over 500 is overkill. Your old toilet was probably somewhere around 250 or so. Any Toto will function well, so go with the model that seems to be the best fit and style for your situation and don't worry about the MaP rating.
 

TheNit

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What I don't understand is why all of TOTO's 1.28 gpf toilets are only ADA height? I understand that 1.28 gpf may likely be legislated soon (at least in the USA) but is the ADA height going to be legislated as well? There are many height-challenged people that would have a problem with the ADA height.

As far as the MaP rating is concerned, I understand that anything over 500 is good. The question was why would 2 nearly identical toilets have different ratings? All of the dimensions are the same except for the skirt.

Also, if the new SS164 soft-close seat is standard on new one piece toilets, why don't they show on the website? The Carlyle II only shows the MS614114CEFG (SS114 seat) and not the MS614164CEFG (SS164 seat).
 

Terry

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It's not real clear what seats they will have. I've been seeing both.
I don't see the taller bowls being legislated. It's becoming more popular though.
They do have plenty of models in the lower height too.
 

Jadnashua

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An ADA height toilet is still shorter than the average dining room chair.
 
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