Tub shoe gasket replacement when no access?

[Tom Rabe]

We moved in 3 weeks ago and inherited the clogged shower drain. House built 1961. Tub sits on a slab with a post install concrete tile floor or painted tile floor. Shower is behind tub in the other bath room.

I removed the tub drain (and hair), but found a cracked/deteriorating gasket below the plumbers putty. I trimmed the gasket back to tub edge. Some gasket remains between the tub and the shoe. I'm wondering if applying a bead of silicone along the edge of the remaining gasket and allowing it to cure a few days and then re-installing the drain with plumber's putty is a really bad idea?

I have not tried pressing down on the shoe with anything so as not to disturb any seal that remains.

 

[Terry]

Normally I would slip a new washer in there. You can push down slightly on the shoe. I would install it clean, no goo or putty.
The putty goes on this side of the tub, not below.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Tom Rabe]

Thanks for the quick reply. If I push down and get no give is the silicone a bad idea?

 

[Terry]

If the Silicone doesn't work then it will be hell to get it out and cleaned up. I have never in 42 years of plumbing needed to use Silicone for those.
I have followed people that thought it was a good idea and I could have killed them.

But hey! You're in Ohio and I will never have to work on it.

 

[Dj2]

I just did one of these, and the shoe was very tight. The gasket/washer that came with the kit was too fat for the space, so I used a thinner washer (avail at plumbing supply stores).
Also, don't skimp on the putty, use a good size bead.

 

[Tom Rabe]

Terry, I am in Ohio and you will never have to work on it, but I'm not ready to die and I don't want some other Master Plumber to kill me if my plan goes bad.

I tried pressing down with a long large screw driver with no success. So I screwed the drain in a couple of turns and put as much of my 200 lbs on my heel on the drain as I could, but couldn't really see if it moved. So I got my wife to do the same with her 120 lbs on the drain and my head down as close as I could get it to detect movement, but I saw none. I had about 3/16th's inch gap between the drain and the tub when she stood on it, but no movement. No movement when I told her to try bouncing a little.

How much weight/force can it take before I break something?

I've run into several diy'ers good ideas over the years that I had to deal with. I'm not looking to add to their legacy with silicone, just at my wits end. I just set out to eliminate a clog.

 

[Terry]

Normally I can push them down with a screwdriver as I position a new washer in there.
If yours doesn't move, you may be going the putty or Silicone route.
For me, the seal is between the bottom of the tub and the shoe, with the rubber washer being snug in the middle.

I have heard that there are plumbing companies out there that refuse to unthread them, afraid of not being able to get them to seal again. I'm not that smart. I go for it anyway.

 

[Plumber01]

Sometimes taking the trim piece off of the overflow and "releasing" the overflow from the tub will free up the waste and overflow assembly allowing a little more space to slip a new washer in.

 

[Tom Rabe]

I really appreciate the input you've given.

Terry, yes the gasket is between the shoe and tub bottom. Regarding that, the old gasket is still in place between the two. I just trimmed the crumbled pieces and resulting rough edge out.

plumber01, I removed the overflow apparatus. I can get some flexion of the overflow pipe back and away from the tub. That gasket is toast as well. But I still can't get any perceptible downward movement of the shoe, even using the set-up I concocted this am where I can apply my upper body weight. My wife is at work so I can't really see what happens, but I still feel no give at all. The overflow and shoe apparatus is bronze if I'm not mistaken. And I suspect the shoe is in contact with the slab below, hence no movement.

I will check my findings this evening when my wife gets home. I'll stand on my apparatus (200 lbs) and have her see if any gap appears. If not I fear I'll have to resort to a thin bead of silicone on the inner edge of the gasket. As such it will not come in contact with the drain part that screws into the shoe. A little teflon tape on the drain threads and plumbers putty for a seal at the inside of the tub and drain.

Note: This began with a clog not a leak. And at present I believe there is still a seal between the tub and shoe, just missing the "non functional" section of the gasket.

 

[Reach4]

Given the situation, what is the best available workaround? I have never done this stuff, but I have some thoughts.

That drain screws in, right? I am thinking put on a new top gasket for the drain flange, or even get a new drain flange with gasket. Then grease up the threads and gasket with thick silicone grease, such as Molykote 111, or plumber's grease. Put a big bead of putty under the flange of the drain, to be squished. Start the threads of the drain. Shove some more putty around the threads and push down into the area of the old bottom gasket, and tighten that slowly drain into place. Putty squishes out after it has filled all available space. To avoid blowing out the damaged bottom gasket, I think you would want to give the putty time to squish without generating very high pressures.

 

[Terry]

Don't put tape on the threads. Those are straight cut threads and have no need for tape.

If you have a gasket in place, you may as well putty the drain and thread it back in.

 

[Dj2]

Terry,
The OP reported that the old gasket was toast.

OP:
Try removing the old gasket out, use flat screwdriver, utility knife, small chisel, whatever. Hope there's no old silicone in there.

If you freed the overflow AND applied 200 lb pressure (was that with or without your wallet? could be a 20 lb difference, just kidding) - AND the shoe still won't budge, you may be looking at drain set replacement, since I bet the shoe is beat up by now. You certainly don't want to break any pipes and cause additional damage.
You may also need the help of a plumber.

 

[Terry]

Terry,
The OP reported that the old gasket was toast.

Terry, yes the gasket is between the shoe and tub bottom. Regarding that, the old gasket is still in place between the two. I just trimmed the crumbled pieces and resulting rough edge out.

 

[Tom Rabe]

the old gasket is still in place between the two. I just trimmed the crumbled pieces and resulting rough edge out.

Ok I believe I still have a seal between the shoe and tub with the remnants of the old gasket. Hence my thought to seal the edge of the gasket with silicone; just the edge. Having "cut twice and it's still too short" a few times in my life the shoe is undamaged. Even 200 lbs can be applied with finesse.
dj2, my wallet is weightless.

Those of you who've had more experience(s) with these critters are my counselors.

So if I can't get movement confirmed by wifey's observation this evening I'm going the silicone route and hoping I'm long gone before incurring any plumber's wrath in the future. Maybe my wife will decide she wants a new tub and then I can just install all new. Oh, joy!

 

[Plumber69]

Am I over tightening the strainer? That rubber gasket always seems to pop out on one side for me

 

[FullySprinklered]

Am I over tightening the strainer? That rubber gasket always seems to pop out on one side for me

They give you thin crappy gaskets with a lot of the budget level waste and overflows. It's easy to overtighten them to the point that they bulge out the side. The putty on the top side will keep it from leaking for maybe ten years, then the water finds it's way through the old putty and drips out at the bulge in the gasket. The bean counters strike again. Some beginner over-tightening may be involved.
On ceiling leaks where the tub is suspect, I always ask the customer the age of the house. Ten years seems to be the magic number on putty failure.

 

[Dj2]

fullydprinlered,
The one I just did is in a house built sometimes in the 80s.
The putty under the strainer failed first. The overflow gasket fell apart second.
The damage to the first floor ceiling is extensive, because the leak happened when someone was taking a bath, without realizing it was leaking.
It will keep me busy for for the next couple of weeks, for sure.

 

[FullySprinklered]

Rentals look good on paper, don't they?