Tub and surround

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by Geo422, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. Geo422

    Geo422 Member

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    What is the opinion on here from the trade about tub and wall surround? Is one better then the other ?I just have bare 2x4 now and starting the rebuilding on the inside of the house.
    Thank everyone for the input. And thanks to Terry for having this forum sure has help me a lot over the years. George
     
  2. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    I prefer cement board and tile. With tile, you have a million choices of sizes, colors, and patterns . When taken care of, it will look good for a lifetime.
     
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  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    FOr a tub surround to work well, the opening must be both the exact right dimensions and the walls plumb with the end walls square. They can look okay for awhile. Tile lasts longer, but there's both lots of ways to do it right, and wrong.

    If you are going to tile, consider using something like Kerdiboard which acts both as the backer and is totally waterproof if you do it per the instructions. Cement board (cbu) is not waterPROOF, but is not damaged by being wetted, so takes a bit more to ensure the structure isn't damaged by water.
     
  5. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    I have no experience with Kerdiboard, but my understanding is that it is basically just kerdi over foam board. That being so, I have a dislike to the idea of using foam board as an interior wall covering, as it seems to me that it would not stand up to as much abuse as cement board. It would be interesting to see some comparisons between drywall, kerdiboard, hardiboard, wedi, ect. to see what the potential for flex is, and to compare how well each stands up to impact between the studs in common frame construction.
     
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Kerdiboard is high density, extruded polystyrene with a proprietary covering both front and back (not their standard sheet membrane). The foam itself is waterproof, the covering helps provide some stiffness and vapor retarder functionality. Given the nominal 16" OC stud wall, once covered with tile, it is quite robust.

    Wediboard is a similar foam with a coating on front back that is not a sheet.

    Seams on Kerdiboard are treated with Kerdiband and thinset. Wediboard requires a waterproof sealant (not cheap!), but has an advantage that you can flood test it in 15-minutes or so while the Kerdiboard, kerdiband, and thinset requires 24-hours to allow the mortar to cure.

    Both utilize much fewer fasteners, cut easily with a sharp utility knife, are easy and light to carry, the dust isn't carcinogenic, and provide a waterproof enclosure versus a water resistant one. And, doesn't crack if you get a fastener too close to an edge, or the studs aren't all in alignment and it must bend too much like a cement board won't.

    If you try it, you'll like it.
     
  7. dohc

    dohc New Member

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    I am not a professional, just a DIY home owner that wants it done right. With that said, I feel that the Wedi solution is the best hands down. I have done one bathroom with the Wedi solution about 8 years back, and it worked out great. Extremely durable and most important 100% water proof. Now I am working on my second bathroom remodel and using Wedi again.
     
  8. Geo422

    Geo422 Member

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    Will this work with any Bathtub?
     
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Both Wedi panels and Kerdiboard work fine in a tub/shower. While the end result should be the same, the way you make the seams and waterproof the penetrations differ between the two brands. Here's a video of how to do it using Kerdi.
     
  10. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    You almost sold me Jim, but Kerdiboard is not easy to pick up locally. I am going to do a surround with Goboard and see how it makes me feel. I like too that it comes in 60x36 sheets, as that will lead to as few seams as possible
     
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    The advantage of a topical waterproofing system is that the entire area becomes waterproof versus just water resistant. In the industry, neither tile, grout, nor cbu are considered waterproof.

    The foam in Kerdiboard is an extruded version of a foam coffee cup, so its waterproof by itself without the extra layers on it that help add stiffness and improve vapor transmission and tile adhesion. Making the foam with an extrusion process versus injection makes it stronger, denser, and closes the surface cells. If you damage the top layer, as long as it doesn't penetrate the entire board, you can ignore it and it will remain waterproof.

    The use of profiles means you don't need to caulk anything. INdustry guidelines call for a gap or flexible material at all changes of plane or materials. IN a shower, the more common method is to use caulk. That doesn't last forever...a profile will. For easiest and best looking end result, make sure your framing is square and plumb first.
     
  12. dohc

    dohc New Member

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    Not sure your location in WI, but https://www.insulationandsupply.com/ has the Wedi board, very easy place to work with. Price is about 2/3 list. Manitowoc, Appleton, and Green Bay.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019 at 9:26 AM
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  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    A couple of things on WEdi...
    - the sealant you use on seams and penetrations is not cheap
    - if building a shower, there are minimum sizing requirements on the shower pan's tile...if you want smaller than x, you must use epoxy thinset and grout which can significantly add to the cost

    This is one reason why Schluter uses thinset and KerdiBand, you don't need to buy additional products, and the price is lower. On a tub surround, though, you should use KerdiFix for that seal between the board and the tub and it isn't cheap either, but you don't need much, and can buy a smaller tube.

    The stuff works well, though, and has some advantages.
     
  14. dohc

    dohc New Member

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    Jim, I agree Wedi is on the higher price side of things. But if you use their standard sizes, it is fast and easy to work with.
     
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