Troubleshooting residential well

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D. Handywoman

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Hello,

I have been "fighting" with our well (in a rural area) at a newly acquired property, and I am running out of ideas. I really hope somebody can help me with my problem.
Our well appears to be 4.5 inches, screened from 50 ft to 100 ft with 5 gpm production (at installation which was in 1978). No info at what depth the pump is installed, or which pump I have. But I saw remnants of a control box with 3-wires (yellow, black and red), no ground, and with 230-250V power supply.
The property has been abandoned for 2 years, and of course, the well did not start with flipping the switch of the power since the control box was missing the front panel.
So, I bought and replaced the pressure switch with a brand new (including replaced the brass nipple), and bought brand new control box (1/2 to 2 hp , 230V, Franklin brand, exactly what was there before). Even though I replaced all these parts the pump does not pump water. I know, you will say, YOUR PUMP does not work.
Uhhha. While I was "experimenting" and waiting for my control box to arrive, I "rigged" the connections, and voila, my pump started pumping water. I connected the black (from the power) to the black and red of the pump, and the white (with black marking) with the yellow, and the darn pump started pumping and filling up my tank. (The tank is also "shot").
My questions are: 1) when I connected properly my brand new control box, the pump did not pump. Why? and 2) when I " rigged" again the pump to start pumping, my pressure switch (brand new) did not shut the water at 50 psi. It just kept on pumping. My pressure switch is 30-50psi. Why?
 

Reach4

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It is possible that the original pump was a 3-wire pump, but it was later replaced with a 2-wire pump. With the wires not powered, what is the resistance between yellow and black wires and yellow and red wires? Normally Main winding =yellow to black, and Start winding=yellow to red. However they could have hooked a 2-wire pump between red and black.
2) when I " rigged" again the pump to start pumping, my pressure switch (brand new) did not shut the water at 50 psi. It just kept on pumping. My pressure switch is 30-50psi. Why?
You are saying that the pump kept pumping, but the pressure only rose to 50 PSI? Maybe the pressure switch is adjusted to 35/55 PSI. Maybe the nipple to the pressure switch is clogged. Maybe the gauge is bad, and the actual pressure generated is less than is indicated.

If you are going to try to get some more use out of a pump that can only reach 50 PSI, you want to turn down the pressure switch to 25/35. Turn the 3/8 nut on the on the big spring CCW.
Three and a half revolutions of the range nut will change both the cut-in and
cut-out settings by approximately 10 psi. So you might want to go about half of that probably.
 

D. Handywoman

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Thanks for responding. But no and no. meaning. I pumped to above 60 psi, thinking the same, that the switch is 40/60 but I purchased 30/50, and I verified that pressure with the pressure of the tank which went to 58 psi (remember I said that the tank is "shot" as well, i already got a new tank but haven't install it). The tank shows the exact pressure of the gauge. Since I got scared I will blow the tank I shot down the power at that high pressure. The nipple is brand new, not plugged. The pressure gauge looks pretty good (I have a new one as well but it is not worth install it if this one is good).
So, to respond to your suggestions: I am certain in the pressure readings and still my brand new pressure switch is not working (or something else...) I also verified my wiring with the pressure switch brand video, it is good as well, the power wires go on the outside (1 & 4) and the wires to the control box on the inside (2 & 3).
I will definitely try to decrease the pressure with the provided nut which I didn't try (thinking this is a brand new part, i don't want to mess with it). This will have to wait for the weekend when I get there again. OR, I will have to get a new pressure switch i guess. I kind of suspected that this one was used when I unpacked it. All its contents spilled out when I opened the box (I shop on-line which is somewhat risky for pushing returned parts).
 

D. Handywoman

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And yes, i suspect the same problem with the pump. I think it is possible that the original pump was 3-wire and when they replaced the pump they used 2-wire pump and did not bother changing the underground wiring. However, in the well house, the bottom part of the control box was hanging there. Why they would have a 1/2 control box when you cannot power the pump with it, when you can just connect the power leads to the proper wires of the pump?
I didn't measure any resistance because I read somewhere that the resistance change with the age of the pump, and if this is an old pump, it will give me who knows what readings. I could check the wiring at the pump head in order to see the color of the wires coming from the well to the colors at the well house. This too will have to wait.
Thanks anyway. Will update next Mon.
 

Reach4

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Why they would have a 1/2 control box when you cannot power the pump with it, when you can just connect the power leads to the proper wires of the pump?
It could have been because it took more work to remove the box than to keep it there?

I didn't measure any resistance because I read somewhere that the resistance change with the age of the pump, and if this is an old pump, it will give me who knows what readings.
You may have misread that. The low resistance of the windings (under 20 ohms ) is not going to change much. The resistance of the wires and windings to ground can change going from maybe 5,000,000 ohms or more down to maybe 500,000 ohms with time. What I was suggesting was to look at the winding resistance.
 

D. Handywoman

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Ok. I will measure the resistance between the red&yellow and black&yellow. Thanks a bunch for clarifying that. So, each one should be below 20 Ohms? I'll do that. So, what do I deduce if they are below 20 Ohms, or greater than 20 Ohms? Thanks.
About the control box: all wires were still connected to the bottom part of the control box, L1 and L2 to the power supply, and B, R, and Y to the corresponding colors of the pump wires. But I should have checked at the well head whether those same colors were coming out of the pump currently in the well.
I will definitely replace the pressure switch AGAIN, and check the nipple. May be kick-starting the pump brought up some junk and plugged the nipple. The water has a lot of iron in it. The staining from it is everywhere, so I wonder whether the rust is from the well screen (40 years in water will corrode any SS) or it is just naturally occurring in that area.
 

Reach4

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Ok. I will measure the resistance between the red&yellow and black&yellow. Thanks a bunch for clarifying that. So, each one should be below 20 Ohms? I'll do that. So, what do I deduce if they are below 20 Ohms, or greater than 20 Ohms?
The actual numbers would vary, but would be well under 20.

Mainly you are looking for if only one pair has continuity, or if both do. But you might as well write down the numbers.
 

Valveman

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See if the points in the pressure switch are opening up. If the points open and the pump doesn't shut off, the wiring is probably wrong. If you have an ohm meter the three readings between the R, Y, and B in a three wire motor will be that the two lowest readings add up to the highest. Like a 2, 3 and a 5 ohm reading. A 2 wire motor will only show continuity between two of the wires.
 

D. Handywoman

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Excellent suggestions. I read that the start up (red&yellow) voltage is in series with the running voltage (black&yellow), therefore, as you said the resistances should add up (V=IR1=V1+V2=IR2+IR3). I'll check.
Yes, i will also open the pressure switch cover and see what happens when the pressure is cranked up. I thought that the following wiring (the control box), if not correct, may influence the pressure switch, but the pressure switch is too simple of a device, it just breaks the circuit before it gets to the control box, it shouldn't matter what is after the pressure switch. Most likely, I have gotten a "lemon" pressure switch.
 
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