Trouble with pressure and pump

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Gpeterson

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I'm typing this up for a family member, sorry if I'm not descriptive enough.

We noticed the toilet wouldn't flush.
-Checked the pump (edit, pressure switch not pump), it's off but if you try to turn it on it'll reach about 20psi and then cut off.
It does this repeatedly, won't go past 20psi.
Cut off is around 50psi. We have no water in the house now.

Any ideas? Thanks.

I meant pressure switch, atleast that's what my relative said. Not the pump, as it's in the well. But the pressure switch.
 
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Reach4

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It sounds like the pump has failed. It is not totally clear what the symptoms are. Is this a pump that you can see?

Checked the pump, it's off but if you try to turn it on it'll reach about 20psi and then cut off.
Now do you mean it cuts off on its own, or the pump just maxes out at 20 PSI and maybe cuts out ? How do you turn it on?
 

Gpeterson

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I'm sorry I meant pressure switch I guess? (that's what he called it)

It has a handle on the side of it and it cuts off on it's own if we turn it on, at around 20 psi.
 

Reach4

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That clears it up. That pressure switch has a lever to bring the pump back on after it cuts off due to the pressure dropping below the low pressure cutoff.

I think you are saying that when you hold the lever, the pump runs, but the pressure never climbs above 20 PSI. Sure sounds like you need a new pump.
s-l300.jpg


You might post a photo of the pump, pressure tank, and pressure switch.
 

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Reach4

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The pump is a submersible pump down the well. So it may be failing/failed. There is another possibility that the pipe has sprung a leak in the well or outside. In either case, it is time to call a well pump specialist. Ask your neighbors for suggestions for the well specialist. See if there is a sticker of who did the installation. Look for notes as to when the install was done, more as a point of curiosity.

Given the presence of that unused third poly pipe, I suspect that this used to be a deep jet pump install that was upgraded to a submersible.

Yes, we are talking serious money. I am thinking $2000 plus or minus 500 as a rough guess. I would avoid a computerized system. A nice 5 to 7 GPM pump with not too much HP would be what I would be thinking.

That Well-X-Trol pressure tank is the top brand. It may be a little smaller than optimum. Can you see the model, for size info? It should have its precharge checked and adjusted probably, although there is no reason to think that contributes to this problem. It is just a normal maintenance thing. There are different opinions on how often that is needed. Some say every 6 months. Every 5 years might be OK too if it is holding its pressure.

I am not a pro. I am tempted to say that for temporary workaround use, you might try dropping the precharge to near zero to make use of that 20 PSI until the well guy gets there. But then the precharge should be raised back to normal before the new pump is put into service.
 

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Well, we have no pump guy. We installed the pump and everything down there. As far as I know, there is no regular maintenance done so perhaps this precharge thing needs to be adjusted.
 

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If the points in your pressure switch are staying closed (touching) and the pump shuts off, the overload in the motor is tripping. If the points in the pressure switch open up at 20 PSI, I would try a new pressure switch.
 

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Alright will do. We just installed a new pressure switch 3 weeks ago so I wouldn't think it needs replacing but who knows?

I'll get back at this thread as soon as we try some these things. Should be in an hour or two.
 

Reach4

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How far down is the water?
This is all I can take pictures of, since the well is close to 300 feet deep. Man I don't want to pull that thing up again. We just pulled it up last year.
Did you install a new pump at that time, or was it something else?
Well, we have no pump guy. We installed the pump and everything down there.
What was the pump?
If the points in the pressure switch open up at 20 PSI, I would try a new pressure switch.
His switch has the low pressure cutoff, so he has to hold the lever while the pressure is so low.
 

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His switch has the low pressure cutoff, so he has to hold the lever while the pressure is so low.

Yeah so if he is holding the lever and the points are still touching, the overload in the motor has to be tripping to shut the pump off.

One year old pump, replaced pressure switch 3 weeks ago, sounds like maybe a waterlogged tank and the pump got cycled to death.
 

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Gpeterson, while the water is at zero PSI, what air pressure do you measure on the pressure tank?

Also, when you hold the lever, how long does the pump run before shutting down?
 

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The precharge at the pressure tank is measured with a tire pressure gauge-- the tank has the same Schrader valve as a car tire has.
 

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I honestly don't know what's going on, and neither does my pop. He held the pressure switch handle and it shot back to over 40lbs. We measured the pressure of the tank and it was around 18lbs. Everything seems to be running normal.

Something similar has happened twice now in the past month. Both times it's happened, it was right after the toilet didn't stop running. No telling how long the toilet had been running the first time. We thought the well dried up, since we had no water. A few hours later and a replaced pressure switch and we had water again. We recently had over 3 inches of rain too and everything has been fine.

When I used the bathroom this morning I noticed the toilet handle was stuck down and causing the toilet to run once again. Soon after we had no water. We have a new toilet and we're installing it today.

Could a toilet running nonstop cause this? Some sort of flooding or something?
 

Reach4

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I honestly don't know what's going on, and neither does my pop. He held the pressure switch handle and it shot back to over 40lbs. We measured the pressure of the tank and it was around 18lbs. Everything seems to be running normal.
Sounds like the pump may be working.


Something similar has happened twice now in the past month. Both times it's happened, it was right after the toilet didn't stop running. No telling how long the toilet had been running the first time. We thought the well dried up, since we had no water. A few hours later and a replaced pressure switch and we had water again. We recently had over 3 inches of rain too and everything has been fine.
The well running out of water is a possibility, of course. And the water level coming back up with time would be common. Is running out of water in wells near you common-- are you in California? If there is worry that your well might run out of water, you should add a protective device to shut the well down in that case. http://cpkits.com/collections/cycle-sensor-pump-monitors is a such a device sold by Valveman's company. The device gets wired between the breaker and the pressure switch. It can be located by the breaker box or at the pressure switch.

Your pressure switch with the low-pressure shutoff offers some of that protection, and it may have saved your pump. However it will not shut the pump down if the water pressure rises higher than the cut-on pressure, but there is not enough water to hit the cut-off pressure, and you are not using water.

I asked how far down the water is. No clue? You might reflect the sun down the well, and try to estimate the distance. You could drop an ice cube to maybe help see/hear what is happening. You could lower a strong cord or extra-strong fishing line with a non-lead weight/bobber to measure water depth. If the water was not much higher than the pump, it would be more likely that you would run out of water.



Could a toilet running nonstop cause this? Some sort of flooding or something?
If you pull 2 GPM continuously from a well that produces 1.6 GPM of water, could it run the well dry? Yes. This may not be your case, but it could be for all we know.

Rain would not usually soon affect the water availability in a 300 ft well, but it could happen in some cases.
 
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Gpeterson

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The pump goes down the well over 200 feet. We have no idea how close the water is to the pump. Even if we dug it up (which we only do in extreme circumstances due to the hard labor and frankly dangerous work involved) I'm not sure we'd be able to figure out how close the water was to the pump.
 

Reach4

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The pump goes down the well over 200 feet. We have no idea how close the water is to the pump. Even if we dug it up (which we only do in extreme circumstances due to the hard labor and frankly dangerous work involved) I'm not sure we'd be able to figure out how close the water was to the pump.

Today your casing should extend out of the ground a foot or so. If you have to dig to get to your casing, you should get the casing extended. When there is a buried well seal, there is much more chance of well contamination. If you are in a freeze area, there is a device called a pitless adapter. This lets the casing and wires come above ground while the water stays below the frost line.
 

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Could a toilet running nonstop cause this? Some sort of flooding or something?

Yes a running toilet can cause the well to be pumped dry if it is a weak producing well. A toilet leaking 2 GPM is wasting 2,880 gallons every day. That 2,000 gallons is also overflowing your septic tank. Fix the toilet, give the well a few hours to recover, and I think you will be back in business.
 
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