Treating 10gpg Hardness, 2ppm Iron and 6.5PH

[Chris Joseph]

Hi. I have 10gpg Hardness, 2ppm Iron and 6.5PH, and was given two methods to treat the water.

1. from well Driller. First use a charger CH20DPC to get rid of PH and Iron and then a Charger CH100MF softener.

2. from plumbers. Use a Marlo Upflow Neutralizer then a Combo Marlo CMP25 Softener/Iron Filter.

Method #2 is cheaper for me, but I've heard not to use a combo unit. Any advice? And if I go with #2 should the Softener/Iron unit be installed first, and then the Neutralizer or vice Versa?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Mialynette2003]

The neutralizer would always come first. Softener resin will remove iron but is not recommend on levels that high. So I'm not sure if the plumber is using just resin or if it is a truly mixed bed which is not advised. Different medias require different backwash flow rates. As for the well driller, I have never seen a system that will raise the ph and remove iron. You might want to find a water treatment company to recommend a system. I have found that plumbers and well drillers don't really know all that is needed to properly recommend the equipment whereas water treatment companies would. But that is just my opinion.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

A pH of 6.5 signifies that your water is acidic. pH is not gotten rid of but needs to be adjusted, normally to 7.0 (neutral) or slightly above. A backwashing Calcite system is commonly utilized for raising pH. The pH adjustment should be the first treatment to be performed but may raise the hardness somewhat.

Iron maybe reduced by various methods such as a backwashing media filter (ie: Katalox Light) or by simple chlorine injection. Iron reduction is most effective when the pH is within a specific range which is why the pH adjustment should be performed first. If chlorine injection is used, it is often followed by a backwashing carbon filter to remove the chlorine residuals as well as the oxidized iron particles.

The last treatment is softening. Suggest a softener with a Clack WS-1 or Fleck 7000SXT control valve. Depending on the number of people and your plumbing configiration, likely a 1.5 or 2 cuft softener will be appropriate.

As mialynette recommended, consult with a local water treatment specialist for recommendations specific to your conditions. They will be the most knowledgeable in water treatment.

 

[Chris Joseph]

HI.. I just got off the phone with Marlo. They say use Softener/Iron Filter Combo first, then Neutralizer. This will add a little hardness back into the water but not too much. The Low pH keeps the Iron Ferrous and lets the Softener/Iron Filter do the job. Then pass that on to the Neutralizer to raise the pH to 7ish.. Again, it add a little hardness but I can deal with that.

Any Comments?

 

[Mikey]

Any Comments?

Read mialynette 2003's and Bannerman's posts.

 

[Chris Joseph]

Miley there comments were prior to the Ma ufacture stating that the Acid neutralizer go second in line. Therefore I was looking for additional input. As it stands I'll do what the manufacturer states.

 

[Reach4]

Install a higher volume water tap after the upflow neutralizer. Have a high volume hose that can run from that tap to a drain. If you are getting a neutralizer without a backwash cycle, you will want to do backwashing yourself by running a strong upflow periodically to rearrange the calcite to get rid of channeling. You would do that with the softener in bypass.

You will want to install a tap, which does not need to be high volume, between units to allow a sample to be taken. Good luck. Let us know how your system works with time.

EDIT: The above comments are additional steps I would suggest if you put in the system that you intend. It does not imply that I think a softener at the front end is the best way to do things.

Also note that a downflow calcite tank with a controller will backwash itself on schedule.

 

[Bannerman]

The comments made before you spoke to Marlo continue to apply.

An online PDF brochure on the Marlo CMP series water conditioners. https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...QGWd65D-1Fdso7JBg&sig2=GBKURhysf_J4CkMf-59-0A

The brochure did not specify other media than softener resin which I suspect is Fine Mesh resin in the combo unit. The salt setting specified for the combo unit is inefficient when compared to that acheivable when the softener is not exposed to iron.

As mialynette mentioned, a softener is not recommended for iron levels as high as yours.

Here is a prior post regarding the Marlo CMP25. Please consider that poster's iron level was 1/10 of your iron amount.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....o-unit-vs-separate-filter-and-softener.53958/

 

[Chris Joseph]

Bannerman. The combo softener / iron filter removes up to 10 ppm. Here are the Specs.. see CMP25 Combo... Iron 10ppm, hardness 100 grains...

https://www.marlo-inc.com/images/fi...filter/CMPComboSoftenerFilterBrochure.pdf.pdf

 

[Reach4]

Bannerman. The combo softener / iron filter removes up to 10 ppm. I'll post the specs. When I find them.

If it does not perform to spec initially or after 3 years, what is the warranty situation?

You would probably want to get a Hach 5B hardness test, if you don't have one.

 

[Bannerman]

I see nothing in the linked brochure, that indicates the unit contains anything other than softener resin.

As previously stated, a softener can be utilized for iron reduction, but after a certain iron level, it is not an efficient method and is not generally recommended.

The capacity stated, leads me to question the theoretical maximum iron removal capacity of 1 cuft of fine mesh or SST-60 softener resin when regenerated with 15 pounds of salt.

As softener resin is susceptible to iron fouling, not only is frequent regeneration at a higher salt setting needed, regular ongoing maintenance utilizing an acid based resin cleaner (ie: Iron Out or similar) is also normally required. Since your raw water is already acidic, I expect that is the reason Marlo recommended installing the softener before the neutralizer as the acidic water should assist the brine to clean away any iron buildup.

As that model is pre-configured to utilize 15 lb salt to regenerate 30K grains softening capacity, that is an inefficient 2K grains per lb. As iron leakage will likely occur before the entire 30K grains is utilized, regeneration will then need to occur sooner so the salt efficiency will be further reduced.

A dedicated iron reduction system is most efficient at iron removal and allows the softener to do the job it is intended to perform, in an efficient manner.

As you focused on the Marlo system, probably only due to the lower initial cost, it appears you're now looking for feedback to support obtaining that system. If you had initially proceeded to consult with a local water treatment specialist as had been recommended, you likely would have received recommendations similar with that stated here. Ultimately, it's your money and decision.

 

[Mialynette2003]

Miley there comments were prior to the Ma ufacture stating that the Acid neutralizer go second in line. Therefore I was looking for additional input. As it stands I'll do what the manufacturer states.

Second in line could be the pressure tank is first then the neutralizer. Again, it is hard to remove iron with ph below 7.0. You can always do as the manufacture says but you will be back here asking for advise again when (not if) it fails.

 

[Chris Joseph]

Guys. I found this in another search on this site about the Marlo. One of the reason I went with it. Plus the Cost. I guess I'll post back if any issues occur. The poster was dittohead from Impact Water who are WQA certified....
==============================================================================

The Marlo combo unit is actually fairly well designed with only some minor potential issues. They use a newer media for the underbedding that should be backwashed more heavily than the resin, but in our in-house testing of this design, it works fairly well for residential applications that do not have too much sediment loading potential. And if it did, a simple pre-filter would take care of the problem. The media they use keeps itself well seperated from the resin and is basically maintenance free for many decades ina residential application.

 

[_John_]

I'm assuming here, but an upflow Neutralizer and a 0.5 cu ft. katalox/water softener on a stacked assembly with 1 valve would get you taken care of. Those hybrid systems are nice when iron is high enough that a stand alone softener isn't ideal, but iron is not out of control. My personal water (2 ppm iron, 7.5 pH and 18 gpg hardness in a 2800 sq ft. 3.5 bath house) is a good application fwiw.

 

[ditttohead]

If you look at the posting you referenced, this was based on the numbers below and not the ones that you have posted earlier in this thread.

Iron is .20 mg/L
pH is 7.8
Hardness is 6.0

 

[Chris Joseph]

If you look at the posting you referenced, this was based on the numbers below and not the ones that you have posted earlier in this thread.

Iron is .20 mg/L
pH is 7.8
Hardness is 6.0

Understood. But from your prior post and talking with the Manufacture. I determined I'd go with the Combo Unit. I'll post back as stated.