Toto Vespin vs what plumber knows

[ChristinaS]

After reading through the forums here, I'm interested in the Toto Vespin II skirted elongated toilet for our master bath. My plumber however recommends the American Standard Clean skirted elongated toilet available at big box store, and has never installed a Toto toilet.

Should I go with more experienced install of the big box toilet, or be his guinea pig and get the toilet I want and that the forum members recommend?

 

[Terry]

Either will work. Having installed both, we still prefer the Vespin. I have one in my home right now. It does take maybe 10 more minutes on the installation, and it's helpful if your plumber reads the instructions.
The shutoff at the wall works best if it's at least 6.5" to the left of center. If it's close than that, I install a Dahl valve that angles over.
The Vespin comes with a 12" rough Unifit.
Sometimes the rough is more like 10" or 14". In that case I can install those and move the bowl 2".
Once the Unifit is installed on the floor, it's an easy thing to drop the bowl down and drop the washers and nuts on the securing bolts. A bead of caulking at the floor helps to hole the bowl in place.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[WJcandee]

Find a new plumber.

Installing a new toilet is one of the least-complicated jobs a real master plumber has to do. These are guys who lug torches and snakes and lengths of pipe, and piece together complex arrangments of pipe fittings.

That anybody would be "afraid of a Toto" or, more accurately, "afraid of the unknown" is sad. And yet we see it over and over again on here from lesser professionals. A freakin' Do It Yourselfer and easily install a skirted Toto. Easily. Just follow the directions. Maybe it involves a little drilling (oooooh, drilling!) or actually having to measure something precisely (ooooooh, measuring!), but it's just insane that anybody who calls himself a plumber would find this challenging.

Terry says plumbers don't like to read directions. Maybe that's the problem.

In any event, tell the guy it's time to learn a new trick. Actually, to learn how to use his old tricks in a different order. And to read.

Or find someone else. I suspect that the guys who install Totos just laugh at the guys who are afraid to.

Our family plumber, when he saw that I had recently (by myself) installed a Toto, said, "That's a great toilet. Great quality. Great flush. We don't normally recommend them because people don't know the brand." I told him that people know it more and more these days, particularly upscale folks who have seen the in-wall tanks and such. "Oh, well I'll start recommending it then."

And the really sad thing is that the less-quality plumbers WILL install Totos. For a variety of reasons, we don't recommend on here that people buy toilets online. But, if you were to buy ANY Toto from a certain one of those vendors, you can in two clicks schedule installation for an extra price. The independent guys that choose to be part of that network of installers are doing it as a loss-leader to maybe find a new client, because that site doesn't pay them an amount of money that would be acceptable to a top-rated plumber, and so you are unlikely to get the cream of the crop. But they WILL install your Toto without whining about it or coming up with a zillion extra charges because it's a Toto, or they will be fired from the network. So, isn't that odd: the good independent plumbers with successful businesses will often be afraid of the Toto, but the guys hurting for business will pleasantly put one in.

 

[JoanF]

Either will work. Having installed both, we still prefer the Vespin.

I was told that a master plumber should be used on the Vespinll. I bought 3 of these about 3 years ago and didn't have them installed yet for reasons I had to wait. I reached a plumber here and they don't do Toto's anymore. Too much of a challenge I guess. I am so thrilled to see this forum. Yes either will work but watch out for the cost it is going to be to install. One plumber was going to charge me about $1440 to install these three of mine. I checked with another plumber that was the man they suggested for me to use where I bought the Toto's and he charges $175 a toilet. Yes things can arise but I am not feeling afraid of the cost with Scott. He has been a plumber for 38 years and has done his fair share of Toto's and my CT474CEFG#01 and the tank that goes with it. If I have from wall to wall , or sink to wall 30 inches I'm safe. He said I needed 15"from wall to where the toilet will be placed down. Terry how do you feel about the toilets that I will be installing and are their any complaints that you can think of about them? Any advice at all? If the plumber is not a master plumber I would at least get a very seasoned plumber and hopefully has done some of these. I hear they are more time consuming to put in. Is that correct? Thank you!

 

[Magneto]

yes go with the toto for sure, don't listen to your so called plumbing professional.

 

[JoanF]

I was told that a master plumber should be used on the Vespinll. I bought 3 of these about 3 years ago and didn't have them installed yet for reasons I had to wait. I reached a plumber here and they don't do Toto's anymore. Too much of a challenge I guess. I am so thrilled to see this forum. Yes either will work but watch out for the cost it is going to be to install. One plumber was going to charge me about $1440 to install these three of mine. I checked with another plumber that was the man they suggested for me to use where I bought the Toto's and he charges $175 a toilet. Yes things can arise but I am not feeling afraid of the cost with Scott. He has been a plumber for 38 years and has done his fair share of Toto's and my CT474CEFG#01 and the tank that goes with it. If I have from wall to wall , or sink to wall 30 inches I'm safe. He said I needed 15"from wall to where the toilet will be placed down. Terry how do you feel about the toilets that I will be installing and are their any complaints that you can think of about them? Any advice at all? If the plumber is not a master plumber I would at least get a very seasoned plumber and hopefully has done some of these. I hear they are more time consuming to put in. Is that correct? Thank you!

 

[WJcandee]

I was told that a master plumber should be used on the Vespinll. I bought 3 of these about 3 years ago and didn't have them installed yet for reasons I had to wait. I reached a plumber here and they don't do Toto's anymore. Too much of a challenge I guess. I am so thrilled to see this forum. Yes either will work but watch out for the cost it is going to be to install. One plumber was going to charge me about $1440 to install these three of mine. I checked with another plumber that was the man they suggested for me to use where I bought the Toto's and he charges $175 a toilet. Yes things can arise but I am not feeling afraid of the cost with Scott. He has been a plumber for 38 years and has done his fair share of Toto's and my CT474CEFG#01 and the tank that goes with it. If I have from wall to wall , or sink to wall 30 inches I'm safe. He said I needed 15"from wall to where the toilet will be placed down. Terry how do you feel about the toilets that I will be installing and are their any complaints that you can think of about them? Any advice at all? If the plumber is not a master plumber I would at least get a ver.y seasoned plumber and hopefully has done some of these. I hear they are more time consuming to put in. Is that correct? Thank you!

All the whining is a bunch of hooey. A lot of guys don't want to do anything new. Terry charges just a smidge more to do the Unifit installation, because it takes a smidge longer. He used to charge the same $175 for all toilets, if you bought them from him. Really, seriously, it's NOT A BIG DEAL to put in a toilet with a Unifit. You carefully measure where the Unifit connector is going to go. You drill a couple of holes. You use a wax ring to position the connector over the flange, just as you would with a toilet. You put screws in the holes you drilled, connecting the connector to the floor. You mount the tank to the bowl (which you would do on any 2-piece toilet, and this one is easy). You pick up the toilet. You place it over the connector. Hook up the water. Done.

Here are the installation instructions for the Vespin II. Easy.

The Vespin II is a skirted version of the Drake II. They even use the same tank. Same tank. Different bowls. (Your tank box doubtless says Vespin II/Drake II Tank on it. Both toilets are very highly rated. People love them. You did good. If you really run into trouble, send me your zip code and I will give you someone to try calling. Good luck!!

 

[JoanF]

All the whining is a bunch of hooey. A lot of guys don't want to do anything new. Terry charges just a smidge more to do the Unifit installation, because it takes a smidge longer. He used to charge the same $175 for all toilets, if you bought them from him. Really, seriously, it's NOT A BIG DEAL to put in a toilet with a Unifit. You carefully measure where the Unifit connector is going to go. You drill a couple of holes. You use a wax ring to position the connector over the flange, just as you would with a toilet. You put screws in the holes you drilled, connecting the connector to the floor. You mount the tank to the bowl (which you would do on any 2-piece toilet, and this one is easy). You pick up the toilet. You place it over the connector. Hook up the water. Done.

Here are the installation instructions for the Vespin II. Easy.

The Vespin II is a skirted version of the Drake II. They even use the same tank. Same tank. Different bowls. (Your tank box doubtless says Vespin II/Drake II Tank on it. Both toilets are very highly rated. People love them. You did good. If you really run into trouble, send me your zip code and I will give you someone to try calling. Good luck!!

Thank you for your input!!!! I am concerned about my tile around where the toilet is placed. Do you think it will need to be taken out a bit for any reason?

 

[JoanF]

Thank you for your input!!!! I am concerned about my tile around where the toilet is placed. Do you think it will need to be taken out a bit for any reason?

Cannot afford any leaks especially from upstairs!

 

[ChristinaS]

What an amazing forum community - thank you! To be fair, the plumber didn't say he was afraid to install the Toto; he was just upfront with me that he had never installed one.

My zip is 21114; I'm between Baltimore & Annapolis MD. Happy to hear of any plumber recommendations you guys might have. A 2nd opinion never hurts.

 

[WJcandee]

Thank you for your input!!!! I am concerned about my tile around where the toilet is placed. Do you think it will need to be taken out a bit for any reason?

There might be some reason that I'm not thinking of, but if you wouldn't have to remove the tile to install a regular toilet, you shouldn't have to remove it to install the Vespin II. So the short answer is "no". The installer will drill four holes in it, though.

 

[WJcandee]

What an amazing forum community - thank you! To be fair, the plumber didn't say he was afraid to install the Toto; he was just upfront with me that he had never installed one.

My zip is 21114; I'm between Baltimore & Annapolis MD. Happy to hear of any plumber recommendations you guys might have. A 2nd opinion never hurts.

Well if you like your guy and he isn't going to charge you an arm and a leg, email him the instructions and see what his reaction is. I have no experience with these guys, but they apparently will install the Vespin II in your area: http://www.linkmech.com/our-services.html I guess it can't hurt to get a quote. I wouldn't have them come by, just have them answer your question as to how much to install a Toto Vespin II skirted toilet in your zip code.

 

[Terry]

The Unifit installs over the flange and requires a wax seal and the drilling of four holes through the tile.
Not a big deal.

The bowl then drops down over the Unifit adapter.

Access to the bolts is at the back.

I find that my homeowners can do the install. If you can get your plumber to read, he should be able install one too.
It's a little different, not a lot different.

If the shutoff is behind the bowl, I can go with this Dahl E33-2386-A Skirted Toilet Kit.

 

[Reach4]

With the Unifit, caulking the base of the toilet is more important than for conventional toilets. There little besides the caulk keeping the front of the toilet from pivoting. Yes, there are those two bolts, but they are near the back of the toilet.

Drilling the 4 holes through porcelain floor tile is a lot harder than drilling through ceramic tile, even though they look the same. It is done with a diamond abrasive bit, and you need to keep the cutting area wet. I did it, but it was new to me.

 

[JoanF]

With the Unifit, caulking the base of the toilet is more important than for conventional toilets. There little besides the caulk keeping the front of the toilet from pivoting. Yes, there are those two bolts, but they are near the back of the toilet.

Drilling the 4 holes through porcelain floor tile is a lot harder than drilling through ceramic tile, even though they look the same. It is done with a diamond abrasive bit, and you need to keep the cutting area wet. I did it, but it was new to me.[/QUOTE

 

[JoanF]

Thank you so very much for you help. I feel so much better hearing everything from you and others. I am looking forward to having them put in now! Cannot thank you enough! Best Regards!

 

[JoanF]

The Unifit installs over the flange and requires a wax seal and the drilling of four holes through the tile.
Not a big deal.

The bowl then drops down over the Unifit adapter.

Access to the bolts is at the back.

I find that my homeowners can do the install. If you can get your plumber to read, he should be able install one too.
It's a little different, not a lot different.

I cannot thank you enough for the pics of what will happen! I couldn't have asked for anything better along with your advice and the others as well. I am so relieved. I do have one question here. If there is only a 28 " width from the wall to the tile that is on the cabinet next to the toilet, is there enough room to install the one in this bathroom? I appreciate your help more than I can say! JoanF

 

[JoanF]

There might be some reason that I'm not thinking of, but if you wouldn't have to remove the tile to install a regular toilet, you shouldn't have to remove it to install the Vespin II. So the short answer is "no". The installer will drill four holes in it, though.

I had a tile floor put in and they took the toilets out of the master and bottom floor bathrooms and then put them back. So I think it should be fine not taking any tile out. Just drill. It is a thicker tile so I imagine he will need a special bit as I saw a suggestion about. I guess it will not crack the tile. Hoping not as I don't have any extras, lol. Thank you much!

 

[JoanF]

All the whining is a bunch of hooey. A lot of guys don't want to do anything new. Terry charges just a smidge more to do the Unifit installation, because it takes a smidge longer. He used to charge the same $175 for all toilets, if you bought them from him. Really, seriously, it's NOT A BIG DEAL to put in a toilet with a Unifit. You carefully measure where the Unifit connector is going to go. You drill a couple of holes. You use a wax ring to position the connector over the flange, just as you would with a toilet. You put screws in the holes you drilled, connecting the connector to the floor. You mount the tank to the bowl (which you would do on any 2-piece toilet, and this one is easy). You pick up the toilet. You place it over the connector. Hook up the water. Done.

Here are the installation instructions for the Vespin II. Easy.

The Vespin II is a skirted version of the Drake II. They even use the same tank. Same tank. Different bowls. (Your tank box doubtless says Vespin II/Drake II Tank on it. Both toilets are very highly rated. People love them. You did good. If you really run into trouble, send me your zip code and I will give you someone to try calling. Good luck!!

 

[JoanF]

You are so, so kind to help me out to find someone in my zip code~~heck city. What a nice person you are! If he doesn't think he needs to do a unfit should I ask for him to ? Which way is better with or without it? Appreciative, JoanF