Toto toilet leak at wax base

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Charlesthetoto

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Hi all,

I recently had a plumber install my Toto drake 2021 1.6Gallon toilet.

When I put a piece of paper towel at the bottom of toilet (we didn’t caulk toilet) , then flush, then pull out the paper towel, I noticed 2/3 drops of colored water on paper towel.

The plumber used extra thick wax ring with plastic horn. He insisted on putting the wax ring on flange then put toilet on it, while Toto manual stated wax ring should be put under toilet first. Is that an issue?

When plumber set the toilet, he didn’t remove the old shim. I notice the toilet isn’t perfectly level on floor, but no wobble as it is secured pretty well on floor. Would an unleveled toilet (no wobble) cause wax ring leak?

Can anyone suggest what the issue might be?

Is it because Toto toilet has very strong pull force, and I got the 1.6 Gallon version so the wax ring couldn’t handle?

Thanks
 
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John Gayewski

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Likley not.

Are you sure the water wasn't there before? Removing a toilet can get water on the floor very easily how do you know this water has been sitting there since the install?
 

Charlesthetoto

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Likley not.

Are you sure the water wasn't there before? Removing a toilet can get water on the floor very easily how do you know this water has been sitting there since the install?
Nope, I made sure the bottom is dry, then I put a new paper towel in, and it was wet after I flush it.
 

John Gayewski

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Nope, I made sure the bottom is dry, then I put a new paper towel in, and it was wet after I flush it.
A lot of people just use a horn with wax ring even though it can work against you. If you don't have room for the horn then it "high centers" your toilet and can cause a leak. So while your wax ring hasn't blown out or gone bad or can seem like it. If you use dye and then see it on your paper towel then someone will have to pull it and start over.
 

Charlesthetoto

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Hi all,

I recently had a plumber install my Toto drake 2021 1.6Gallon toilet.

When I put a piece of paper towel at the bottom of toilet (we didn’t caulk toilet) , then flush, then pull out the paper towel, I noticed 2/3 drops of colored water on paper towel.

The plumber used extra thick wax ring with plastic horn.
When plumber set the toilet, he didn’t remove the old shim. I notice the toilet isn’t perfectly level on floor, but no wobble as it is secured pretty well on floor.

Can anyone suggest what the issue might be?

Is it because Toto toilet has very strong pull force, and I got the 1.6 Gallon version so the wax ring couldn’t handle?

Thanks
A lot of people just use a horn with wax ring even though it can work against you. If you don't have room for the horn then it "high centers" your toilet and can cause a leak. So while your wax ring hasn't blown out or gone bad or can seem like it. If you use dye and then see it on your paper towel then someone will have to pull it and start over.
Thanks for the information, this is very frustrating. would using Waxless ring like the Sani seal help?
 

John Gayewski

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Thanks for the information, this is very frustrating. would using Waxless ring like the Sani seal help?
I use wax unless it's a rear outlet toilet. If there's no room under your toilet then foam might work. It might also make your toilet wobble. It's a case by case deal.
 

Reach4

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The plumber used extra thick wax ring with plastic horn. He insisted on putting the wax ring on flange then put toilet on it, while Toto manual stated wax ring should be put under toilet first. Is that an issue?
He did it the right way. The Toto book called for the wrong way.

How far above/below the floor level do you think the top of the closet flange is?

Can you slip a fresh piece of paper towel/etc in? Does it get wet only during flushes, or does it get wet from just sitting overnight? My reason for asking is that a flaw in the toilet bowl is not unheard of.
 

Charlesthetoto

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He did it the right way. The Toto book called for the wrong way.

How far above/below the floor level do you think the top of the closet flange is?

Can you slip a fresh piece of paper towel/etc in? Does it get wet only during flushes, or does it get wet from just sitting overnight? My reason for asking is that a flaw in the toilet bowl is not unheard of.
The flange is about 1/4 to 1/2 above the floor. Initially a regular wax ring with horn was used, then it leaked with small amount of water each flush. Now an extra thick wax ring was used, similar leak.

I used new paper towel 3 times already. It only leaks after flush. If no flush, the paper is dry.
 

John Gayewski

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He did it the right way. The Toto book called for the wrong way.
I do it the way Toto says it's not right or wrong. I prefer to set the toilet with the ring stuck to it. This way I know it's placed centered over the hole and only have to worry about lining up the bolts. There are times, when doing the other way, that the wax ring gets bumped to one side or the other and messes it up.
 

Terry

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If the flange is proud of the floor that much, a single wax ring is all that is needed.
Shimming is checked before that bowl is dropped. You don't want the bowl moving.

 

Charlesthetoto

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I called Toto and they said their toilet are designed to use wax ring without horn…. My flange has left side broken( on the bolting part only, the metal around the waste line still intact). That’s makes it difficult for me to use no horn wax ring… Can anyone tell me if I can cut the plastic horn along the circumference to make the hole bigger? Or cut half of the horn?
 

Reach4

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I used new paper towel 3 times already. It only leaks after flush. If no flush, the paper is dry.
Is the deeper part of the paper towel getting wetter than the part a the outer edge? I am wondering about a flaw where the water leaks between tank and bowl.

Try a paper towel or two in the crack between tank and bowl.

Also, under the base, I am thinking a piece of Kraft paper (like paper grocery bags) would be easier to push.
 

Charlesthetoto

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Is the deeper part of the paper towel getting wetter than the part a the outer edge? I am wondering about a flaw where the water leaks between tank and bowl.

Try a paper towel or two in the crack between tank and bowl.

Also, under the base, I am thinking a piece of Kraft paper (like paper grocery bags) would be easier to push.
Only the inner part of paper towel is wet. So that means less likely leak from the bowl tank connect?

Thank you for the suggestion on Kraft paper!
 

Reach4

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Yes, I agree, but it would be possible that there was a flaw in the bowl that emits water during a flush. How many times was the wax placed-- just the once? A flaw in placing the wax seems probable.
 

Charlesthetoto

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Yes, I agree, but it would be possible that there was a flaw in the bowl that emits water during a flush. How many times was the wax placed-- just the once? A flaw in placing the wax seems probable.
The wax was placed 2 times. The first time, they used a regular wax ring with horn, after leak detected, they pulled the bowl. Wax looked melted(or gone?), especially in front of the bowl. The second time they used an extra thick wax ring, and the same leak occurred.

Is it really possible water can “back up” and eject water and shoot far? The leak showing on paper towel is on the corner away from the wax ring, not closest to wax ring.
 

John Gayewski

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The wax was placed 2 times. The first time, they used a regular wax ring with horn, after leak detected, they pulled the bowl. Wax looked melted(or gone?), especially in front of the bowl. The second time they used an extra thick wax ring, and the same leak occurred.

Is it really possible water can “back up” and eject water and shoot far? The leak showing on paper towel is on the corner away from the wax ring, not closest to wax ring.
Dude plain wax ring, shims. End of problem.

The horn isn't doing anything but taking up space you don't have.
 

Reach4

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The wax was placed 2 times. The first time, they used a regular wax ring with horn, after leak detected, they pulled the bowl. Wax looked melted(or gone?), especially in front of the bowl. The second time they used an extra thick wax ring, and the same leak occurred.

Is it really possible water can “back up” and eject water and shoot far? The leak showing on paper towel is on the corner away from the wax ring, not closest to wax ring.
Did you use a plunger? In the face of a partial block in the drain pipe, that can blow out a wax seal.
 
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