Toto Soiree or Guinevere review, installing, comments and pictures

[midnightshow22]

I put a Toto Guinevere into my bathroom (the only one functioning at the moment all the rest are gutted) 2 months ago, and I have had no problems with it.

 

[Terry]

Looking inside the tank of the Toto Soiree

A Soiree in an older home in the Ravenna neighborhood.

The TOTO Guinevere

These older homes have 14" rough-ins.
Since the Toto with skirted base lets me change the rough-in, I can still pull the bowl back closer to the wall.
I can install these at 10", 12" or 14"

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reader Review]

TOTO Eco Soiree

Dear Terry & James,
Thanks so much for all your help.
I love my new TOTO!!!

Maggie
Seattle WA

 

[fred54]

I'm thinking of replacing an ancient eljer with a Soiree. My supply is fine left to right (8 inches), however it is 8 1/4" off the floor and Toto says it should be at 4 1/2". Is that a potential problem? It would seem to me that as long as I can connect the supply to the toilet without crimping the flexible connector I should be good?

Thanks.

 

[Terry]

My supply is fine left to right (8 inches), however it is 8 1/4" off the floor and Toto says it should be at 4 1/2". Is that a potential problem?

As long as the shutoff doesn't hit porcelain, you will be fine.
There are many ways to bend a supply that doesn't kink.
We've even installed right behind the bowl up high, there is a little indent there, it worked out fine.

 

[lennym]

We're trying to choose a toilet for a new bathroom. There are reports on another forum of problems with the washdown of the Guinevere. Could there be a significant performance difference between the original and the "eco" versions? If so can the new ones be retrofitted or tweaked to use 1.6 gallons?

In another bathroom we have had a Toto Carrollton for 6 years and have never had to plunge. The G-Max design seems to generate enough flow so that the siphon pulls the waste down rather than pushing it down. Does the "Double Cyclone" system generate enough flow to do the same thing?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Terry]

The 1.28 works fine.
If you look in the bowl, and it looks like you have given it a real "work out"
Just hold the handle down a bit, and let that much more water drop from the top tank.

You can flush with as much as 2.2 gallons that way.

 

[lennym]

Terry,

How do you account for the thread in the other forum? You posted to it. Could it be venting?

In any event, if someone has that problem can the Guinevere or Soiree be "tricked" into using 1.6 gallons with an ordinary flick of the lever? A part replacement perhaps? My toilet is going into a guest bathroom.

Thanks.

 

[Terry]

How do you account for the thread in the other forum? You posted to it. Could it be venting?

which forum,
There was a real nice post I did on the Guinevere with stats that is no longer there.
The other forums don't let me say much without deleting.
I try to keep it real and honest,
It's funny the posts they do keep.
Most of it is just wild guesses, and then those start getting repeated as fact.

Venting has nothing to do with it.

If the line is not clear, that would make a difference.
Or if there is something in the trapway that slows things down, that matters.
Homeowners always tell me the trap is clear, but when I pull toilets, I find all kinds of things that "weren't there"
They might have been missing those things for a long time, but nobody remembers "placing" them in the bowl.

The world is shifting to 1.28 gallons.
If you need more, hold the handle just a bit longer
Remove the weight that causes the flapper to drop so quick
Replace the flapper with the blue Korky Flapper for Toto.

I've been installing a lot of the 1.28 toilets.
They're out there, and working fine.

 

[Reader Review]

MS974224CEFG Guinevere one-piece toilet with double cyclone
https://terrylove.com/pdf/ms974224cefg.pdf

Hi again -
Toilet is working great (so far!) Bathroom looks better, too.
S. Wood
Seattle WA

 

[edbog]

Terry:

You've commented on the Soiree and the Guinevere. I'm thinking about installing the Toto Ultrmax II, w/SaniGloss model MS 604164 CEFG. What is your opinion of it? I called Toto and was told the Guinevere is the new name of the Ultramax II but toilets under each of these names are still being sold.

 

[Terry]

The MS604114CEFG used to be called the Gwyneth
Now the Ultramax II,
Somewhat modern looking and non-skirted.

The Guinevere and the Soiree are skirted bowl toilets with a traditional look.

All of these have been working very well.

 

[Terry]

A nice bathroom with a TOTO Soiree.

 

[Elmo]

The handle for the Guinevere
Pretty nice.

Terry, I have 5 Guinevere toilets in my new home. I had a problem where the flapper would not close because the handle, which is normally in the "six O'clock" position would stick in the "3 O'clock" position. This only seemed to happen with the toilets in my 6-year old twins bathrooms. It seems that when they went to flush the toilets they would pull the flush handle not too hard or too soft but just enough to get cause the copper rod to "wedge" against the nut holding the handle to the tank. It took me many tries before I was able to replicate the problem, because it was intermittent, but when I did, I called Toto and they sent me out new handles for all the toilets. Since the new handles were installed, the problem has gone away. Toto says that they never heard of this problem. Have you?

Also, one of the Guinevere toilets would periodically emit a "shrieking" noise when not being used. I fiddled with the float adjustment screw on the fill valve and it stopped the noise but it continues to do this randomly. When I started to research this problem I discovered that of the 5 toilets in the house, this is the only one that is a 1.28GPF model (Green Flush Valve w/white screw) while the others are 1.6GPF (Blue Flush Valve w/no screw). My question is, is there any difference between the 1.28 and 1.6 models besides the flush valves. Can I replace the Green valve with the blue?
Thanks - Great forum

 

[Terry]

The china is the same.
They change the fill valve to shut off a bit sooner.
And on some they weight down the flapper to drop quicker.

But, if you overfill the bowl a bit, the extra water finds it's way down the drain.
If the fill valve is making noise while idle, then you may have a leaking flapper.
Fix the flapper, and the noise will go away.
Those fill valves tend to give a little squeak when they shutoff.
Check the flapper for leaks.

 

[Jadnashua]

The only other thing I can think of is if your water pressure is too high, the weakest point in the system will leak...it could be that flush valve can't handle that high pressure. Have you ever checked yours? You can buy a gauge at one of the big box or plumbing supply houses for about $10 with a max tattle-tale hand. Attach it and leave it on overnight and check the pressure periodically and then the max. If it exceeds 80psi anytime, you need a PRV and an expansion tank, or if you have them, one or the other is bad.

 

[Elmo]

The only other thing I can think of is if your water pressure is too high, the weakest point in the system will leak...it could be that flush valve can't handle that high pressure. Have you ever checked yours? You can buy a gauge at one of the big box or plumbing supply houses for about $10 with a max tattle-tale hand. Attach it and leave it on overnight and check the pressure periodically and then the max. If it exceeds 80psi anytime, you need a PRV and an expansion tank, or if you have them, one or the other is bad.

My house water pressure is 70 psi so it is well under the 80 psi threshold.
Thanks anyway for the suggestion. I may just go ahead and change the flapper. I think Terry said to go with one of the Korky flappers after I receive the replacement flush valve from Toto.

 

[Elmo]

The china is the same.
They change the fill valve to shut off a bit sooner.
And on some they weight down the flapper to drop quicker.

But, if you overfill the bowl a bit, the extra water finds it's way down the drain.
If the fill valve is making noise while idle, then you may have a leaking flapper.
Fix the flapper, and the noise will go away.
Those fill valves tend to give a little squeak when they shutoff.
Check the flapper for leaks.

Terry, first, thanks very much for the suggestion to use the "blue" Korky flapper. This made a BIG difference in the flush volume and force. The water height in the tank was 6 3/4" which when flushed with the original "orange" Toto flapper would drop to about 3 1/2" in the tank before the flapper would fall and the tank would refill. After switching to the "blue" Korky flapper, the water height in the tank which was still 6 3/4" would then fall to about 2", meaning that an additional 1.5" of water would be used in the flush (whatever that equals in volume). An additional item that I wanted to mention is that the other difference between the 1.6 GPF and 1.28 GPF Toto Guinevere toilets is that the flush valve stand pipe/bowl filler pipe is about 1" taller in the 1.6 GPF toilet. Will I have any issues substituting the "blue" fill valve for the original green fill valve? I never really had an issue with the 1.28 GPF toilet and the blue flapper has made it that much better. I was prepared to put a 1.5" pvc coupling on the fill valve pipe which would provide about the same flush valve height as the 1.6 GPF toilet but it now works so well that I don't think this will be necessary.
Thanks again.

 

[friendlycanuck]

Hello we are about to purchase a new toilet and have looked at the Soiree and Guinevere. My questions are:
1. Is this the right choice when water supply is in the floor?
2. Being that there is no Toto dealer in my area, would it be wise to purchase a Toto product? I worry about part supplies when problems arise.

Thanks
Robin

 

[Terry]

Parts are simple for a Toto.
Most local hardware stores carry parts for them.
I notice that Korky and Fluidmaster carry replacement 3" flappers, and you can use a variety of fill valves.
You can also order factory replacements.

If your water supply is floor mounted, you would need to measure how far from center it is.
The Soiree and Guinevere have wide foot prints that go pretty close to the wall.