Toto Drake - should I have to hold the flush lever?

[Terry]

With the Toto, we have to exert more pressure. Do you press the handle down slowly and release it? Or simply press down as quickly as possible and let it go?

Also, it makes this huge "gulping" sound before you hear the water flush. Is that normal?

The flapper in the new toilet is 3", not the 2" of the old toilet. It does take more effort to lift the flapper up with the force of the water in the tank holding it down. All my grandchildren are worthy of this though.
The gulping sound is the powerful flush as the water and solids are sucked through the trapway. You may need to find a new place to store your plunger as the odds are that it will become dusty with lack of use.

 

[Jadnashua]

An old toilet might have needed to dump 3.5 or even more (some as much as 7 gallons on really old ones). That takes more time for the tank to empty to perform the flush. Then, those old ones typically had a 2" diameter flapper valve...the modern ones (nearly all of the Totos) use a 3" diameter one. The extra water pressing down on the larger flapper may be part of the extra force needed to open it to flush. Since the tanks are smaller too, you can only do so much with a lever...IOW, it would become convoluted to try to make it easier...sure, it could be done, but nobody feels it's necessary. Have you tried to flush a pressure-assisted toilet? Those take yet again more force to open up the valve under pressure verses a gravity flush toilet.

Modern toilets generally do not empty the tank when you flush (unless you hold the handle down) - they use the extra volume and height to provide some of the oomph to make it flush.

To properly flush a modern toilet, push the lever fully down to the stop, and let go. It is timed, so if you did it slowly, you'll likely end up dumping more water than design. Should you really want to use more water, you could hold it down until the tank emptied, but that's rarely needed, or a good idea. A modern, well-designed toilet can do some amazing things with a small amount of water compared to many older toilets.

 

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[WJcandee]

I will just add that that Toto Drake, of which we have two, was really the first toilet to do so much with the small amount of water that the law was changed over a decade ago to require. It has deservedly-earned a stellar reputation, and I think you will grow to like it. Few toilets do as well with the legally-required amount of water.

 

[SteveW]

I know this has been asked and answered, but our landlord just replaced a 48yo toilet with the Toto Eco Drake ST743 E#01 and we are both shocked and confused. There is so little water!

When you say "there is so little water" -- I am assuming you are talking about the standing water in the bowl?
If so, that is also part of the way new low-flow toilets are engineered. They have enough water in the bowl to do a good flush -- the old toilets had excessive water in the bowl.

The downside of this, of course, is that you have more exposed porcelain to attract skid marks and so you do have to get out your brush some times (just store it in an attractive container near the toilet, where you used to keep the now-unneeded plunger as Terry says).

The upside of less water in the bowl and less water used for a flush is it is hard to overflow one of these toilets if someone does in fact manage to plug them (rare, but does happen -- unusually large stools, too much paper, wrong type of paper, use of non-toilet paper like Kleenex).

 

[famattjr]

Wow, this was my go to site to inform myself, but I could do without the condescending remarks. Yes, "as an engineer" I did look close. The flush does not fully actuate unless held for at least one second. You don't get a full flush of waste which I KNOW this toilet is capable of. Also the bowl refill isn't complete, so clearly it did not do a proper flush/refill cycle.

Add an engineer I flushed several times(holding 1 second) to ensure water spot was the correct size. Then I attempt to flush by moving handle to stop and immediately releasing. Result:half flush majority of the time. Fact is that it is repeatable on my toilet and replicated on the original poster's note. Not a big sample size, but enough to say the two of us aren't making this up.

I respect you as a professional, that's why I come here (especially when designing toilet parts). I also am fine with tongue and cheek making fun of us engineer types. But your tone with the OP and myself is s bit arrogant. ..didn't used to be that way....too bad

I'm with you. No matter what you do with chain length, flapper, flush valve, fill valve, you do not get a good flush unless you hold the handle down. And if there are any solids in the bowl- forget it, you definitely have to hold it down a second or so. Also, keep your toilet auger ready-I have to use mine at least 2-3 times a year.

 

[Jadnashua]

A properly adjusted Toto toilet rarely needs a plunger or toilet auger unless you have a medical condition creating long-hard stools. If you do, there are only a few toilets that can handle them. But, painting all low-flow toilets as poor performers, is not valid, at least from my experience with Toto toilets. Many of the toilets made since the low-flow requirements did poorly, but they are getting better, and today, most are at least decent. Some definitely work better than others, though.

 

[afg73]

New to forum, but trying to figure out why three newly installed TOTO Drake 1.6 (with tower) are getting plugged up. Push and release the lever and you get a quick forceful flush, but every family member and three guests have plugged one of these toilets. I appears that the TP/waste is getting clogged just as it exits the bowl. If you hold down the lever until waste clears, then no issues. I did some testing with TP balls the size of a softball, I was able to plug the toilet with 4 wads if I just pushed and released. Couldn't plug the toilet if I held down the handle, even with a ridiculous amount of TP in the bowl. It almost appears that the push and release flush is to fast and sucks the waste/TP into the drain all at once, thus plugging it. I'm wondering if the tower version does not flush as well as the older flapper. Also wondering if there are any adjustments that can be made to keep the valve open a little longer with the push and release flush--it doesn't appear much can be adjusted with the tower. Lastly, What should my plumber be checking to see if something is fixable? Venting, wax ring, etc? Just as a comparison, our old toilet was a American standard cadet and it was in the same bathroom for 7 years, never plunged it once.

 

[Terry]

Push and release the lever and you get a quick forceful flush, but every family member and three guests have plugged one of these toilets.

One is plugging? Or all of them? If it's one, then I would be thinking something left over in the trapway like Q-Tips or other items, or perhaps a wax ring that is covering part of the drain.

 

[Jadnashua]

How much slack is there in the chain? You want it to be a minimum that will still allow the seal to be made when released, but tight enough to get the full throw.

Second thing to check...make sure that the bowl refill hose is held up above the overflow and is properly directed into the overflow. If the bowl isn't properly filled, it takes more water from the tank during a flush to make it work.

If they used wax rings with a plastic funnel, and the thing is a bit tight on the flange you have, it can partially block the outlet as can excessive wax that may have shifted, and is blocking things.

 

[afg73]

One is plugging? Or all of them? If it's one, then I would be thinking something left over in the trapway like Q-Tips or other items, or perhaps a wax ring that is covering part of the drain.

Each one has been plugged probably two times each. The water level is just below the pipe in each of them. They appear to function correctly, it's just surprising that they have all been plugged up based on the reviews I read prior to purchasing them.

The valve doesn't stay open long, but that seems like the design. I'm wondering if there is a way for the tower to be adjusted by our plumber so the valve opens a little more.

 

[Jadnashua]

You need to answer the other questions...it is critical for the bowl to have the proper level for a toilet to flush well.

To check, note where the water level in the bowl is. Take a bucket, and SLOWLY pour water into the bowl. If the water level rises AND stays there, that's an indication that the bowl is not properly being filled. Generally, the reason for that is when the hose feeding the bowl is not properly installed or aligned. If you pour water too fast, it will initiate a flush. The bowl must be filled to it's 'full' state for it to work properly.

 

[WJcandee]

Jim is correct that the first place I would look is whether the bowl is sufficiently-refilled by the time the tank shuts off. Is the refill tube attached correctly to the flush tower overflow and pouring water into it?

Here's what it should flush like:

 

[afg73]

You need to answer the other questions...it is critical for the bowl to have the proper level for a toilet to flush well.

To check, note where the water level in the bowl is. Take a bucket, and SLOWLY pour water into the bowl. If the water level rises AND stays there, that's an indication that the bowl is not properly being filled. Generally, the reason for that is when the hose feeding the bowl is not properly installed or aligned. If you pour water too fast, it will initiate a flush. The bowl must be filled to it's 'full' state for it to work properly.

Hose clip is properly installed and the water level didn't change with additional water into the bowl as you recommended. The chain has a little slack in it, but the valve hits the top of the tower when the lever is pushed. The flush looks pretty similar to the video above. I guess I can have our plumber check the wax ring.

 

[afg73]

Figured out a solution with a little help from TOTO support. Turns out that the tower valve does have and adjustment: there are notches on one side that allow the sides of the "cup" above the valve to move up or down. Move it down and it holds less water, making it lighter. I pushed the side down to the lowest setting and it increased the time the valve stayed open from 1.4 seconds to 1.8 seconds. Much better flush. I turned off the water and measured how much water one flush used after I made the adjustment. It came to just about 6L, which is the volume the toilet is supposed to flush. Not sure why I wasn't getting a full flush with the factory setting, but this was an easy adjustment. It took a few minutes per toilet, no tools needed other than a small flathead screwdriver to pop the tab out and back in on the side of the tower.

 

[Reach4]

Figured out a solution with a little help from TOTO support. Turns out that the tower valve does have and adjustment: there are notches on one side that allow the sides of the "cup" above the valve to move up or down. Move it down and it holds less water, making it lighter. I pushed the side down to the lowest setting and it increased the time the valve stayed open from 1.4 seconds to 1.8 seconds. Much better flush. I turned off the water and measured how much water one flush used after I made the adjustment. It came to just about 6L, which is the volume the toilet is supposed to flush. Not sure why I wasn't getting a full flush with the factory setting, but this was an easy adjustment. It took a few minutes per toilet, no tools needed other than a small flathead screwdriver to pop the tab out and back in on the side of the tower.

How about a photo or two that could help others address this if it comes up.

 

[dbman190]

How about a photo or two that could help others address this if it comes up.

I had a very similar problem with a new Eco Drake with a tower valve. About 1 in 3 flushes the bowl wouldn't siphon and the flush would do practically nothing. If I held the flush lever down, everything would be fine and it would siphon, but this was a waste of water and I shouldn't have to instruct guests how to flush our toilet.

Following afg73's instructions, I removed the tower valve and saw there are 5 adjustment levels. I adjusted the tower valve one level (rather than to the other extreme), and now the flush is perfect every time.

Below is a photo. The factory setting on this tower valve was in the top (left-most in photo) hole. I moved it down one click to the second step, as you can see in the photo. I was able to unseat the adjustment just by twisting the valve but needed a flat head screwdriver to reseat it in the second hole by pushing the screwdriver against the nub.

I'm glad I found this post because I was very displeased with the Eco Drake's performance until I made this adjustment. I'm also surprised there is no documentation about this anywhere easily accessible on Toto's site. It's not in the installation manual at least, but it's also possible I didn't know where to look. Hopefully this is helpful for anyone with a similar problem.

 

[Terry]

You can adjust the flush tower using a flat blade screwdriver and pushing the tab down to rotate the pin toward the right, and then slide it up or down before rotating it back.

Snap! Why isn't this in the manual?