Toto Drake: no glaze in trapway?

[Rmplstlskn]

TOTO Drake: A Little disappointed with glazing...

After reading this and other forums on toilets to replace our old 7+ gal. American Standard toilet, I took almost everyones advice and bought a TOTO Drake in the ADA height.

I am very happy with toilet quality and flush power, as well as the large "pool" of water in the bottom of the bowl compared to the little puddles other low flow toilets have, HOWEVER, I am a bit disappointed in the INTERNAL GLAZING job on these Drakes...

On mine (YMMV), the glazing seems to stop when you leave the bowl and enter the trap area and the bottom opening also does not seem to have any glazing on the porcelain surface where the waste dumps out and down the drain.

I stick my fingers into the bowl drain and it feels ROUGH and unglazed. I reach my fingers into the bottom opening and it too is rough and feels unglazed. This is in contrast to my old AS water hog that is baby-butt smooth no matter how far in my fingers go.

It probably doesn't matter, I just expected MORE from a toilet this expensive... At least glazing all throughout the waste path... Mine was made in Vietnam...

But it does flush STRONG and SURE... Just my review of the Toto Drake toilet...

Rmpl

 

[FloridaOrange]

After reading this and other forums on toilets to replace our old 7+ gal. American Standard toilet, I took almost everyones advice and bought a TOTO Drake in the ADA height.

......

I stick my fingers into the bowl drain and it feels ROUGH and unglazed. I reach my fingers into the bottom opening and it too is rough and feels unglazed. This is in contrast to my old AS water hog that is baby-butt smooth no matter how far in my fingers go.

Hopefully your "inspection" was pre-use.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Terry]

Take two baby wipes, throw one on the mirror and one on the textured wall.

Now tell me which one falls off quicker.

Do you really want the inside of the drain to be that smooth.
I've seen some that have that smooth glaze, but paper will stick to the sides.

Swimmers use a Shark Skin like suit that is rough, so it goes through the water quicker.
Race cars dimple the outside of the body.
Golf balls use dimples.

And you want smooth?

 

[Rmplstlskn]

I see your point... but this roughness was not dimples... it was sharper with peaks.

Like I said, it probably doesn't matter, but if the bowl is smooth I don't see how smoothness throughout the waste path would not be a good thing...

Rmpl

Take two baby wipes, throw one on the mirror and one on the textured wall.

Now tell me which one falls off quicker.

Do you really want the inside of the drain to be that smooth.
I've seen some that have that smooth glaze, but paper will stick to the sides.

Swimmers use a Shark Skin like suit that is rough, so it goes through the water quicker.
Race cars dimple the outside of the body.
Golf balls use dimples.

And you want smooth?

 

[Terry]

I sell a few thousand of these a year, exactly like you describe.

The rough trapway works better then the smooth trapway.

Do you want to look at the inside of your toilet waste hole.

Or spend less time plunging?

 

[Jamie]

Food for thought

I hear you about the unglazed portions of the trapway, but they work well and if the bowl stays clean, and doesn't plug like the last one while saving water then who cares. I have seen many older water hogs with fully glazed trapways and i marvel at them as i toss them in the dump because a client is fed up with high water bills and constant plugging. For what ever reason todays toilets do not seem to have a fully glazed trapway, ALL brands, not just Toto. I guess it's a cost saving practice. Much like how they never seem to glaze the back or bottom of tanks on 2 piece toilets? Anyways, that's great that the Toto Drake has worked out for you. Isn't the comfort height ADA version worth the extra money? My back and knees sure can tell the difference! Go Seahawks!

-Jamie

An 80's night party. We don't dress like this all the time
Andrea and Jamie

 

[Whatnow]

In the CR article, it indicated that most toilets reviewed are already at ADA height. I find that hard to believe, knowing that Toto offers the ADA model. Exactly what are the different height measurements? Is the Toto ADA model taller than the minimum required height for ADA qualification?

 

[Jadnashua]

Not sure of the exact measurement, but with seat, the height must be in the order of 16" or more. There may be an upper limit as well.

 

[Terry]

Consumer Reports

Here's something they don't test for.

Defects

TOTO, has less then 1%

All other brands, you better take a couple you can sort through to get one complete non defective tank and bowl.

I sell all of the brands, and it's a real crap shoot whenever I sell something like Kohler, American Standard, and Gerber.

The Consumer Reports #1 Rated Dual Flush, the Gerber Ultraflush is coming back 40% of the time with non-working tanks within the first year.

Oh, that's right, Consumer Reports only flips the lever a few times with sponges and writes "their" report.

Did you notice that most of the toilets on the report are the same?
They rate the same toilet over and over again.

They have the Kohler Cimarron four times
Three of the two piece version and one of the one-piece version
The Cimarron will plug more then manuy other toilets in household use.
They may flush sponges, but what does that even mean to the average housewife?
Is that what we buy toilets for? Flushing sponges?

The Gerber Ultraflush is on four times
three times with the tall bowl and three different tanks, the 1.1, 1.6 and dual flush
And once with the short round bowl and 1.6 tank
I have a hard time selling a Gerber Ultraflush a second time to a customer.
I get almost no repeat sales with these.

Most of the former number picks from Consumer Reports are no longer being manufactured. They were that bad.

The toilet with the most complaints, is this years number one pick.
That makes total sense with Consumer Reports track record.
They couldn't see quality if it bit them.

TOTO manufactures many of their products in America

 

[Peanut9199]

American Disabilties Act (ADA) states a toilet need to be between 17"-19" including a seat.

Toto's ADA toilets are 16-1/2" their "Universal Height" is 16-1/8".

So it also depends also on the thickness of the seat being used.

 

[Gary Swart]

The concern about the roughness in the Toto trap way reminds me of a story I believe to be true, that happened a number of years ago. It seems a famous European luxury automobile maker wanted to put an automatic transmission in their cars for the first time. They decided to copy a very successful American transmission. (Now right away you know this is a very old story!) They purchased a transmission, completely disassembled it, and began to carefully copy the parts. It seems that they came to some discs that had a rough finish. Of course, even though the parts were hidden away inside the transmission case and owners would never see them, they couldn't have less than the best, so they reproduced these discs and polished them to a mirror finish. Result? The transmissions wouldn't engage. The roughness of the discs were necessary for the transmission to engage. I can't swear to it, but I think it was Rolls Royce that bought Chevrolet transmissions. Me thinks you look too hard for something to find fault with if you are feeling the inside of a toilet trap way when the toilet is working perfectly.

 

[Toto Shopper]

Glazed Trapways!

I am wondering if anyone ever checks the toilet over for imperfections when they unbox their toilets. For example Toto advertises a fully glazed trapway! What does that mean exactly?
When we were inspecting our new, not yet installed Toto Drake,I found it not to be glazed INSIDE the holes sides and top. So when you look straight into the hole, the part you can see, it is glazed and then when I put my hand into the small hole, the one where the water enters , it is not glazed anywhere except the opening, the sides and top inside the hole are not glazed. Similarly in the larger hole where the waste material is flushed through the bottom of the trap is glazed as far as I can feel although it does get "pimply" rather then smooth as far as I can stick my hand through. Again sides and top of that hole are also not glazed.
Is this defective? or are all the same? I phoned the store but they don't seem to be in the habit of checking these details just selling them and I am then going to assume that people just install assuming all is well with their toilet.

If someone has time to respond I'd really appreciate the feedback.
Thanks

 

[Micp879]

This is a frequently discussed topic on these boards. Pretty much all the Toto's are going to be like that. Just because it feels rough, does not mean it is not glazed. Supposedly, that roughness in the trapway helps to prevent toilet paper from sticking to the sides of it, which if it were to occur, could potentially result in more clogs. Hopefully Terry can chime in and help ease your fears. You can also do a search on these boards, and you will find several posts asking that same question.

 

[Terry]

I had a customer in California cancel an order on a Toto because the bowl and tank were made in China.
Strange. Toto has very good quality control in China.
Ever heard of the expression, set out your best fine china?

He should have ordered the CST454CEFG Drake II if he wanted it made in the USA.

TOTO uses a drier clay method of production, and uses pressure molds.
I always get a perfect round trapway with the Toto.
I've never had to return a TOTO for a bad trapway.

If they have a bad one, it must get pulled before it ever gets shipped.
Less then 1% returns on Toto.

 

[Terry]

I had asked Shingo Watada about the trapways on the Toto.
I got this email from him,

I asked our lead engineer, Depash Patel for porcelain products why our trap-way is unglazed. Major reason is for the better flushing performance, among other things.

Kind of confirms what I thought about them too. They seem to clog less if they are a little rough.

A super smooth trapway clogs up.

When you throw a baby wipe on a mirror, it sticks.
When you throw it on a textured wall, it falls off.

Terry

 

[Jadnashua]

Fully glazed does not necessarily mean smooth.

 

[DesignerRants]

DON'T WANT A STAINED, DIRTY-LOOKING TRAPWAY AGAIN!

Realize this is an old thread, but it came up in a google search.

I've had a bad experience where a few years back I bought a cheap toilet and not long after, the trapway always looked disgustingly stained and ruined, not like glazed china. I don't want that to happen again. Perhaps it's to do with the mineralization of my water (although I use a softener), or using harsh chemicals to clean the toilet (although it's just regular consumer cleaning products made for toilets). But then why doesn't the bowl look the same as the busted-looking trapway?

I don't want to spend money on another toilet that doesn't have a nice, consistent material appearance, all the way down. I want a cleaned toilet to LOOK clean. And I'm in the market for a toilet that's not too expensive (probably an American Standard Cadet 3 or Champion 4). Can anyone tell me if this is a poor choice based on what I mentioned about the trapway? Or any other pertinent advice?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jadnashua]

FWIW, one of my Toto toilets now is pushing 15-years old...the trapway looks as clean as the rest of the toilet, which is about the same as when it was installed. No special maintenance has been done on it. AS has a decent design on some of their models, but has proven to have somewhat spotty build quality. It takes both a good design AND good build quality. Toto seems to have solved that problem. Terry's experience seems to point that out as well from the large quantity of toilets he sells every year...Toto has the smallest return/defect rate of those he sells, and I think, for good reason.

 

[WJcandee]

The Toto trapway (and the back of the tank and certain other places) are absolutely glazed. What they are not is glazed with the stuff that yields a smooth surface. It's as simple as that.

And I have to think that this recent poster is just having fun. There is no way to see the inside of the trapway on an installed toilet, unless you plan on using a boroscope. If the poster means the bottom of the visible toilet bowl, then that area is smooth-glazed on a Toto.

 

[DesignerRants]

wjcandee, I wasn't having fun, I was just ignorant. I thought that bottom part of the bowl was called the trapway. Either way, that's the part that seemed to have all the glaze scraped off on a cheap toilet I bought, and it looks terrible in that it's inconsistent and different colors than the white china of the rest of the toilet. I don't want to buy a toilet, install it, caulk around it, etc., and then have it look unclean when it was just scrubbed.

Thanks for the advice. I can see this is a very pro-toto site. Perhaps you've finally swayed me, because I'm looking at a Drake CST744E(G)(R)(B). Or maybe the 1.6gallon vsn? I suppose if I look on here, there's many opinions about the 1.6 vs 1.28 gallon standards?

Any opinions for or against the Drake CST744E(G)(R)(B) ? It's going in a basement bathroom install, the flushes will go to a lift pump station.

https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst744eg-specs.pdf

Thanks for the advice!