Toto Drake: no glaze in trapway?

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Reach4

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Any opinions for or against the Drake CST744E(G)(R)(B) ? I
I would comment that the R indicates that the flush lever is on the right as you face the toilet. That usually costs extra.
 

WJcandee

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He's looking at the spec sheet, which also lists the options in parenthesis.

I think he would like the CST744E, which is the Original Drake in the 1.2gpf version. The various options are G, R, and B. G for CEFIONTECT (Now called CeFiONtect), R for right hand trip lever, and B for Bolt-Down Lid.
 

DesignerRants

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Thanks again for the info.

One more question: Now that I"m feeling funneled, so to speak, into a Toto; Why the focus on Drake models? Is it because of a price/quality/feature nexus that presents an exceptional value proposition that the Consumer should exploit, or something else? I've seen some other Totos sold in big box stores and wondering why they're not as highly recommended?

If this topic has been beaten to death elsewhere, feel free to send me off in that general direction.

Thank you.
 

WJcandee

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Why the focus on Drake models?

Value. The Original Drake models were the first low-flows that flushed exceptionally-well because of their intelligent design and still didn't cost an arm and a leg. Toto makes a wide variety of models, most of which can be had by smart shoppers for a big percentage off list price. Almost all of them flush exceptionally-well. If appearance predominates over budget, then there are a number that we would recommend. We have a Carlyle II one-piece in the Master Bath, and it looks amazing and flushes exceptionally. We have two Original Drakes in other bathrooms, which we love. All flush wonderfully.

The other reason people talk about the Drake is that when Toto came out with a new two-piece that looked a little schwankier, was Universal Height, had CEFIONTECT and used a "cyclone" flush for somewhat-better bowl cleaning, they orignally dubbed it the Gwyneth. They then realized that the Drake had an amazing reputation for flushing well, and this thing flushed equally-well, so why not call it the Drake II? And thus the II line was born. Drake II in the two-piece, Ultramax II in the one-piece, etc. Those all came standard with CEFIONTECT, Universal Height, the 1.28gpf flush, and the Double Cyclone rinse, for about $100 more-ish than the plain ol' Original Drake. But the original Drake was such a good value proposition that they kept it around, and it still sells very well.

Recently, they came up with a toilet that is a little smaller tank than the Drake and costs $20-40 or so less, but flushes just as well. They called it the Entrada. It looks good, and flushes like the original Drake. That's where I would go now if I wanted a Toto that simply worked great and was well-made.

Bottom line is, pick the Toto that you like the looks of, and we'll tell you if it flushes and bowl-cleans well. Most likely it does.
 

DesignerRants

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Thanks again, good info. I've been looking at Drakes with CEFIONTECT online. Now I'll add Entradas to the list.

I think this may really be my last question on the topic, but do you or anyone have advice on where to buy a toilet? Is it to the point yet where it's economical to purchase and have shipped online, or is the big box store still the best deal? Any particular favorite retailers?
 

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Not a fully glazed trapway here either

I just picked up my Toto Drake, and the trapway is rough, not glazed - just like the original poster described. On the bottom is stamped "Made in China".

Is it possible that the China made ones are not fully glazed, while those made elsewhere ARE fully glazed??

Has anyone bought one that is actually fully glazed and feels smooth when you reach underneath it into the trapway (before it's installed)?? If so, then where was yours made?

I also just checked the Toto website spec sheets for the Drake and the Ultramax. It's interesting that the Drake spec sheet says only "glazed trapway" while the Ultramax spec sheet says "100% glazed trapway".

What's going on here?

BTW, did anyone ever get any answers from Toto that explains it to their satisfaction?

Original poster: Does your toilet say Made in China? Did you ever install the non-fully glazed trapway toilet and how has it been working for you?

Some other things I noticed is:
- There is also no glazing under the bowl rim (around the holes where the water comes out).
- The glazing on the back side of the tank is minimalist (not that it's really required there, but possibly more evidence of them cheaping out)
- The trapway has obstructions molded into it, in addition to the non-glazing
 

Holeshot

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Hate to resurrect an old thread, but I have to agree with the original poster about the trapway. I just bought and installed a Drake, and it flushes fine. BUT, they advertise a "fully glazed trapway" and deliver a rough trapway. It is absolutely false advertising. I removed a Peerless elongated that came with the house (built in 2000) and it had what I would call a "fully glazed trapway", with glossy glaze all the way through. Kohler has it fully glazed. American Standard does, too (although I went through 2 Champions and found significant other defects before I gave up and bought the Toto).

The trapway is NOT fully glazed. I checked several at a local store that sells Toto and had an extensive display, and found that none had full glazing. Some had the glaze extend farther down the hole than others, but in all I could reach the end of the glaze with my fingers.

I am not pleased. But I feel like there is not a viable alternative out there right now. Kohler Cimarron doesn't clean the bowl well enough. American Standard Champion 4 has major quality problems (warped tank, poor glaze quality under the rim, patch in trap that looks like caulk applied after glazing). Gerber with the Sloan pressure assist is too noisy for the wife. And Toto shortcuts the glaze. Can't anybody do this right?


Most people are too lazy to check details on products or skills. That's one of the reasons the US quality of products are no longer the industry leader. There's very few Americans that pay attention to detail.
You can see the laziness/doesn't care right here on this forum and I don't blame them because it's stressful being detailed.
However, DWV info here is really awesome!

I bought 2 Aquia dual flush, 1 piece. At the Snyder Diamond warehouse in Burbank (Showroom is Pasadena, CA), 7 out of 8 toilets had cracks in the trap. I ended up returning both toilets.

I contacted the TOTO corp in Japan. This is where the companies in Japan treat customers like royalty, literally.

I was told the toilets are manufactured in Georgia for US customers and there is a quality issue of manufacturing. I'm not aware of being made in China.
Toilets made in Japan are world class.

The Georgia glazing, forming and firing is not as good as Kohler but TOTO has a great design and flushes poop down the drain really nice!

If I'm paying an extra $100 for a fully glazed trap, I have the right to get one.

TOTO seems to believe there's a good reason to have a fullyamecha glazed trap. They just don't know how to do in Georgia. Problem is probably human, machine equipment, climate and or clay.
 

WJcandee

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I think this may really be my last question on the topic, but do you or anyone have advice on where to buy a toilet? Is it to the point yet where it's economical to purchase and have shipped online, or is the big box store still the best deal? Any particular favorite retailers?

There is a risk of breakage when you order online. Which is why the prices online, etc are going up and up. A lot of it arrives broken and they have to replace it, so it's a crapshoot. But places like Home Depot are a total ripoff, most of the time, when they get Toto for you. The best is the local plumbing supply, in the yellow pages. Open to "Plumbing Supply". Pick 5. Seriously. Regardless of whether they say in their ad that they sell Toto, because they can almost always get it. Call all 5 and give them the exact color and model number of the one you want and tell them that you're ready to buy today if the price is fair, then ask for their price. Some will be rude. Some will be nice. Some will be high. Some will come close to the online price. Pick the price/niceness ratio you like best, and buy from them. That's our tried-and-true method, which seems to work the same all over the country. If you're uncomfortable hanging up after the nice person quotes you a high price, thank them and tell them that your employer/spouse/whatever insists that you get 3 bids (which is standard), so you will call them back.

When they call to say they got it in, make sure to look at it in their place, so if there is a problem you can see it right there.

Good luck.
 
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