Toto Drake II vs Drake 1 vs American Standard Champion Pro

[DanMcD]

I have a Drake II in my hall bath and love it. But in my master bathroom, I would like a toilet that is not 16" tall because I am a short person who like to have their feet flat on the floor. Thus, I am looking at two options: Drake 1 and the American Standard Champion Pro. Which one of these is as good as the Drake II?

 

[Terry]

TOTO Drake CST744EG, or CST744SG
The bowl is C744EG
Standard height, elongated bowl, CEFIONTECT bowl finish
E = 1.28 GPF
S = 1.60 GPF

 

[Sponsor]

 

[DanMcD]

TOTO Drake CST744EG, or CST744SG
The bowl is C744EG
Standard height, elongated bowl, CEFIONTECT bowl finish
E = 1.28 GPF
S = 1.60 GPF

Two more questions: Does it clean the bowl as good as the Drake II? Do you believe the findings from Consumer reports on the Drake 1?

 

[Reach4]

Does it clean the bowl as good as the Drake II?

The Drake II is higher than you want.

Terry believes these reports: https://terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm

Note 5 rating for Drake II and 4 for CST743.

 

[Terry]

Two more questions: Does it clean the bowl as good as the Drake II? Do you believe the findings from Consumer reports on the Drake 1?

I don't believe Consumer Reports on toilets. They have guessed so badly in the past that their report isn't even worth reading.
They have been wrong so many times.
I have sold thousands of the Drake 1 toilets. Most of those are repeat customers. I'm still waiting for CR to admit their mistakes.

The Drake with CEFIONTECT, CST744SG works great.

 

[Cameron Fields]

I have noticed the ever clean surface doesn't last long and once it is gone, it seems there is no way to get it back. But they seem to have great performance. The standard height is good for less tall people. Last time I checked I think it is available.

 

[roachslayer]

I've been debating these same models. A few more questions here.

Is Sanigloss not worth it if it wears off after a while (re: last post)

What sort of flush characteristic does the drake ii CST744SG have? Do you have to hold the handle down till the tank drains, or just flick it for a full flush? Likewise, can I do an unoffficial "dual flush" by slowly holding the handle half way down just to get it to partially flush a little? Hope I distinguished those 2 scenarios sufficiently.

also, why get a 1.28 if a 1.6 is legal? I'm all about max flush power.

 

[WJcandee]

You wouldn't want to play games with the Drake one. We have two of them, and they work just great. No reason to play with the full flush vs. Partial Flush and all that nonsense. Just push the handle and let it go and the thing will do a great job. If you want a true dual flush toilet, get the Toto Aquia. It's a great toilet and a solid dual flush. Holding the handle down to drain the entire tank on the Drake One will spend about three and a half gallons of water. And not accomplish anything more than the flush that you get by just pushing and releasing the handle. Here's the secret about the 1.6 vs 1.28. They both use the same bowl, so you don't get a bigger water spot with a 1.6, which you sort of used to. Most people can't tell the difference in a 1.6 Drake and 1.28 Drake if I flushed them side by side. Not so with the 1.28 and the 1.0. But with the 1.6 vs the 1.28, it really isn't an issue.

 

[Plumbs Away]

I have a Drake II in my hall bath and love it. But in my master bathroom, I would like a toilet that is not 16" tall because I am a short person who like to have their feet flat on the floor. Thus, I am looking at two options: Drake 1 and the American Standard Champion Pro. Which one of these is as good as the Drake II?

I had the Champion in my last home and the thing would probably have swallowed a large cat with no problems. I should emphasize, however, that mine was the 1.6 GPF model. I have no experience with the 1.28.

The original Champion, as most here know, was problematic from its introduction, resulting in a class action law suit and a complete redesign of the tank components. Though still not using a traditional flapper, the redesigned flush valve uses a relatively easy to replace (and readily available) seal. I never had to replace mine, but my research indicates that the Korky replacement seal is preferred over the OEM American Standard seal.

The preferred brand at this site is Toto, but I'm just saying....

 

[roachslayer]

I'm seeing a LOT of reports around the web that the CEFIONTECT is not worth the extra cost. General feedback is:

1) customers that have both (with and without CEFIONTECT) see no difference in flushing/self-cleaning
2) it wears off eventually anyway
3) when it does wear off, it's WORSE than a unit without CEFIONTECT because the surface underneath the gloss is rough

Doesn't sound too good to me. Terry has recommended the CEFIONTECT unit in places on this site. Is there something awesome I should know about it that counters the above?

 

[Terry]

Roachslayer,
Your information is wrong. Very wrong.

I have CEFIONTECT in a 2005 TOTO Ultramax, It still shines. I use liquid bowl cleaner and yes, there is a difference with the CEFIONTECT. My customers notice a difference too. I don't know where you are getting your information from, it differs from the hundreds of reports I have gotten over the years from real people.
My other two toilets also have CEFIONTECT. I have also had the non-CEFIONTECT, and other brands. I have had many brands in the home, including the Champion.

Any of these toilets flush well with 1.28 gallons. Yes you "can" hold the handle down, but the MaP reports are with the listed GPF.
That includes any brand with a good MaP report.
Which by the way, anything 500 grams or more is very good.

 

[roachslayer]

Thanks, I am fine being told the info I have is wrong. The reports on this site have value and counter some of what is out there (your site is awesome btw, which is why I'm here). The reports I referred to were found from various posts on Houzz.com (formerly gardenweb), which, to their credit, is just a bunch of real users (not an editor or reviewer). One example here: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2263260/does-toto-sanigloss-work-worth-it

Anyway, is there any reason to get a 1.6g if the 1.28 is just as well?

 

[Jadnashua]

CEFIONTECT (actually, been renamed, but still the same thing) IS the glaze, and being partially glass, does not wear off in normal use. But, like many things, depending on what you use to clean the thing and the state of your water (hardness and pH), you could wear it down or add mineral deposits, or etch it. It does work. My oldest toilet with it is now 15-years and going strong. I've had to replace the flapper valve a few times as well as the seal in the fill valve, but those rubber parts are expected to need replacement periodically, again, depending on your water quality.

From what I understand, the main difference between the 1.6 and 1.28g on Totos is how carefully the balance between tank and bowl refill is so there's no excess going down the drain, and obviously, how much gets dumped. They are really close in performance.

 

[roachslayer]

Thanks all. I settled on the Drake II 1.6 gal with CEFIONTECT and figure if i want to be conservative on water, there are ways I can do that with a 1.6 on my own (ye ol' brick in toilet or alternative flappers, etc).

The final thing that sold me on CEFIONTECT was this post by kenyoung over 11 years ago, with his perspective and a reference to the article "Nanotech Toilets Take Off" by Norm Wu.

Seriously Terry, your site is an amazing resource. I hope things are going well for you there on the east side. I kinda miss WA, born and raised up north of Seattle, but now live in the desert in Utah.

 

[Plumbs Away]

Thanks all. I settled on the Drake II 1.6 gal with CEFIONTECT and figure if i want to be conservative on water, there are ways I can do that with a 1.6 on my own (ye ol' brick in toilet or alternative flappers, etc).

The final thing that sold me on CEFIONTECT was this post by kenyoung over 11 years ago, with his perspective and a reference to the article "Nanotech Toilets Take Off" by Norm Wu.

Seriously Terry, your site is an amazing resource. I hope things are going well for you there on the east side. I kinda miss WA, born and raised up north of Seattle, but now live in the desert in Utah.

If you find a Drake II 1.6 GPF, please tell me where! Last I checked, the Drake II is available as a 1.28 or a 1.0 GPF.

 

[WJcandee]

Yeah, sarcasm aside, you can get the Drake II CST454CEFG in 1.28 or the "1G' -- 1.0 gallons per flush -- which is CST454cUfg.

You can get the Original Drake, which is CST744SG with 1.6 elongated bowl with CEFIONTECT (called CeFIoNTect these days...stupid) or CST744EG with 1.28 elongated bowl with CEFIONTECT.

 

[Terry]

I installed another Ultramax II 1.28 gallon toilet (one-piece version of the Drake II) in Seattle today. I have one in my home too, along with a Vespin II (the skirted version of the Drake II)
I've had the non CEFIONTECT toilets in the home too, but the ones with the better finish are easier to keep clean.
I had a customer in Issaquah that is an airline pilot. He is sometimes gone for days. He started with one CEFIONTECT bowl and then changed everything to CEFIONTECT. CeFIoNTect now. I can't even remember how this is spelled. At least I can copy/paste it.

Sometimes you will see posts that compare toilets from the 60's to modern low flow toilets. Yes, the six gallon toilets that swirled and swirled took less cleaning. And if you want to keep the old stuff, nobody is complaining. We like to compare stuff made and sold in the same decade here. We don't really write about the stuff our parents bought and used. When I buy a ski magazine and read about skis, I'm not really looking to find out what ski from the 60's I can get. I'm looking for opinions on stuff that is still sold new. Same with plumbing. If it aint new, we're not writting about it. More likely we're either repairing it, or tossing it. Okay, so maybe we're talking about repairing them. But not buying em.

Horseshoe Bay on the way back from Whistler on May 1st.

 

[roachslayer]

If you find a Drake II 1.6 GPF, please tell me where! Last I checked, the Drake II is available as a 1.28 or a 1.0 GPF.

I found it at supply.com, so it's kinda annoying to have it shipped rather than pick it up local. Interesting though, I found a harder time sourcing a Toto with CEFIONTECT than I did 1.6g. Even a certain big box store with the initials HD have the Drake II in all gallon sizes, but no CEFIONTECT models (that I found at the time anyway).

 

[Reach4]

but no CEFIONTECT models (that I found at the time anyway).

I think a G at/near the end of the model number indicates CEFIONTECT (renamed CeFiONtect).

 

[WJcandee]

I found it at supply.com, so it's kinda annoying to have it shipped rather than pick it up local. Interesting though, I found a harder time sourcing a Toto with CEFIONTECT than I did 1.6g. Even a certain big box store with the initials HD have the Drake II in all gallon sizes, but no CEFIONTECT models (that I found at the time anyway).

What he is saying is that the Original Drake comes in 1.6 (or 1.28), but the Drake TWO only comes in 1.28 or 1.o.

The Original Drake does have a CEFIONTECT bowl, which Toto now calls CeFIoNTect or whatever. If the model number has a "G" in the suffix, it has CEFIONTECT/CeFIoNTect, as Reach4 points out.

We recommend buying locally, but of the websites, that's one of the better ones.