Toto Drake II confusion

[YoungSenior]

Hello! i'm new to this forum, and hope someone might be able to clear up my confusion. I wanted to buy a 1.28-Gallon Toto Drake II, CST454CEFG, in color #12. My quotation (from a retail outlet in Canada) shows the following items: (1) a C454CUFG#12 Drake II 1-Gallon bowl; and (2) a ST454E#12 Vespin II tank. Can these two pieces be coupled together?? And will I end up with a 1-Gallon or a 1.28-Gallon toilet? (According to the store, the C454CEFG bowl is no longer being made, and has been replaced – by Toto – with the C454CUFG bowl. That is fine — but will the Vespin II tank still fit, and will the toilet work well??) Appreciate any help! Thank you!

 

[WJcandee]

Very interesting question. It IS true that Toto is now using the same bowl on both versions of the Original Drake (CST744S and CST744E). The only difference is the tank (so the toilet is ST743S or ST743E tank with C744E bowl).

So on the one hand it might make sense that the revised 1G bowl might be used in both toilets.

My initial reaction was that the cUfg (1G) toilet only came in Cotton White, so this must be wrong. However, I notice that Toto DOES now offer the 1G in #01, #11, #03 and #12. So your place might be right.

However, looking at the June 2013 Parts list for the Drake II, it still shows the proper bowl for your 1.28gpf (CST454cEfg) toilet as being C454CEFG, not C454CUFG, which is the bowl currently shown on the Parts List for the Drake II 1G (the one-gallon flusher, CST454cUfg). The C454CEFG#12 bowl still seems to be out there amongst the suppliers in the US.

One thing that they ARE wrong about is that the ST454E#12 Tank isn't technically the "Vespin II" tank but rather is the "Drake II" tank. Because the Vespin II and the Drake II both use the same tank, and 454 is the Drake II model number (474 is the Vespin II), that's a bit of confusion that you don't need and they generated for themselves. But, yes, the ST454E#12 tank is the one you want for your 1.28gpf Drake II toilet (and it's the same tank used on the Vespin II).

The best way to get a definitive answer is to cut and paste your inquiry into an email to Toto Customer Service, who are very nice folks in Georgia and whom I'm sure would be happy to provide an answer, because you raise a good question. They generally reply pretty quickly.

custservice@totousa.com is their address.

And please let us know their answer.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[YoungSenior]

Thank you so much, wjcandee, for your comments and suggestions. Very much appreciated. I did contact Toto customer service, and they replied that the C454CEFG bowl and the C454CUFG bowl are actually the same bowl -- just different model numbers -- and that either will work with the ST454E tank in the 1.28 gallon Drake II configuration. So I'm happy, and ready to proceed with my order.
(However, I still have a nagging memory of having read somewhere in this forum that the inside of the 1G bowl was new and different from earlier double cyclone bowls -- but can't locate that thread, and am not going to worry about it! As long as the tank and the bowl fit, and the toilet flushes well, I'll be happy!)
We'll have to wait a few weeks for the toilet to arrive, but I'll post a review once it's been installed.
Thanks again for your help.

 

[WJcandee]

Happy to help! I agree that there was some talk about revisions to the Drake II bowl to make it work better on 1 gallon; it may be that those revisions were then incorporated into the CEFG bowl going forward. However, Toto's usual practice is not to ship two identical things with different model numbers, so I find that answer a little surprising. Regardless, what they do know is whether one thing is going to fit on the other, and it seems that it will, so you are all set!

I look forward to reading your review!

TOTO Drake II, CST454CEFG

 

[Wallijonn]

CST454CUFG - exactly what does "Close Coupled" mean? Flush Valve?
https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst454cufg-specs.pdf

(CST) Gravity type Toilet
(454) Model
(C) Double-Cyclone
(E) E-Max® 1.28 GPF
(F) Universal Height
(G) CEFIONTECT / CEFIONTECT
(R) Right Hand Lever
(U) Ultra Low Flush 1G

Love the 474 bowl with it's sleek lines but don't like the idea of having to drill another four holes to anchor the Rough In adapter.

CST454CEFG-01

 

[WJcandee]

Okay, well... "close coupled" in a 2-piece toilet only means that the tank sits on and is connected to the bowl. In the old days, they used to mount the tank to the wall, perched just above the level of the bowl; then, they would connect the tank to the bowl with a big shiny elbow pipe (a 90 bend). The water would go out the bottom of the tank, into the pipe, and then into the toilet. We have an ancient one of these by American Standard that is in a rarely-used toilet closet; the date carved in the tank is 1927.

A "close coupled" toilet, which is basically every normal 2-piece in the last 20+ years, typically has an inch or so of the flush valve protruding through the flush hole in the bottom of the tank, which is secured in place with a big nut, over which goes a rubber donut which stands on top of the water entry hole on the top of the bowl, and the whole thing is secured together with bolts. (There are a few different mounting systems out today, but the basic idea is that the water flows out the bottom of the tank directly into the top of the bowl and through the channels molded in the porcelain bowl to its various destinations.) Oddly, sometimes they say 2-piece and sometimes they say "2-piece close coupled". As far as the Toto line goes, it's the same thing. Their 2-pieces are all "close-coupled", as are any such toilets today that aren't some kind of throwback designer esoteric.

The 474 is the Vespin II, which is basically a regular Drake II with a skirt. The regular Drake II and the Vespin II use the same tank (model ST454: On the box it says "Drake II/Vespin II Tank"). The skirted toilets use, as you note, the UniFit adapter, which allows you to put the thing on a 10, 12 or 14" rough-in. An advantage of the Unifit is that you secure it to the flange and then plug the toilet into the unifit, so you can be sure you have a good, firm connection to the flange that won't leak or smell. Of course, you can do that with a regular Toto just by using the proper size or number of wax rings when you install it. The real advantage is the flexibility it gives you to have the toilet fit really well in a 10 or 14" rough-in space. It's not that hard a thing to install (done it), but it's not as fast an install as just dropping the bowl on the wax and tightening the closet bolts.

The spec sheet you put up there, by the way, is for the CUFG toilet, meaning the Drake II 1G, the one that uses only one gallon and has a different tank than the regular Drake II. Again, the regular Drake II and the Vespin II you mentioned share the same tank, whereas the Drake II 1G uses a slightly-smaller tank. Here's the spec sheet for the regular Drake II (CST454CEFG: https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst454cefg-specs.pdf

See...that ST454 tank looks different than the ST453U tank that is used exclusively on the CUFG (Drake II 1G).

Come on back with any more questions...