Toto Drake Dilemma

[AH81]

So I just installed my first Toto Drake 1.6 gpf.
Toilet bowl - C744EL
Tank - ST743S

I have to say Im not happy. I rebuilt this bathroom. I replaced the subfloor, rebuilt the toilet flange for a 12" rough in from the finished wall. The Drake's tank sits 1.75" off the finished wall. Its a small bathroom, I was hoping for the 28 1/8" length, it sits 29 1/4" from the finished wall.

So far I have found numerous errors on the CST744SL spec sheet. I have measured 3 different Toto C744EL bowls, all measurements the same.

So now Im considering a different toilet. The supply store is willing to take the Drake back.

Im considering either:
Cadet Pro Right Height Elongated Toilet or the Toto Entrada.

-The Cadet Pro sits 1 1/16" off the back wall and has a length of 30 1/8"
-The Toto Entrada tank is 3/4" off the finished wall and has an overall length of 28 5/8"

The supply store was telling me that the Entrada is considered a commercial grade toilet (not as good of quality), same flush as the 1.28 drake, but of lower quality, not as robust.

Curious what everyone on here thinks.

Thanks.

 

[Terry]

Have you check to see how vertical your wall is behind the toilet and how level your floor is?
If the wall is walking away then the gap will get larger. I set an Entrada this morning, and the floor was so out of level that the tank was touching the back wall.
So...........check the wall because that may have a lot to do with it.

The Entrada flushes 1,000 grams on the Map testing It's built a little lighter than the Drake, but flushes just as well.
It's normal that the Drake would have 1-1/8" behind the tank on a 12" rough with floor and wall where they should be. Not that those things are always built true by the framers. At least not over a long period of time after things settle.

So is this one of those tiny bathrooms on wheels?

Out of level floor by a bunch on this one. I should have had room behind the tank, but it was touching. Not that touching is not good, but I kind of like them not touching.

I pulled out an old original Kohler from the 60's. You can see where they shimmed with buttons.

And sponged the floor and wall. New closet bolts on the copper closet flange.
Someone else had changed out the shutoff.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[AH81]

That is a gross wall.

The wall is level. When remodeling the bathroom I shaved the joists down to level the floor, layed 2 layers of subfloor, and installed the tile. the floor is level.
The overall length of the Drake's base is longer than the spec sheet, the base is further from the wall than it should be. Even measured my neighbors and it doesnt match the spec sheet.

Id love for it to be 1 1/8" from the wall, but its not. I dont get it.

 

[Jadnashua]

All of the measurements on porcelain stuff is 'nominal' or IOW, it's the average. Some will be slightly larger, some slightly smaller. Toto is usually pretty consistent. Check the tank, it may be able to be loosened and straightened up to help. Is the space behind the tank parallel with the wall, or does it lean one way or the other?

FWIW, you can usually fudge the location of a toilet on the flange by up to maybe as much as 3/8"...there's usually enough slop in both the slots in the flange and the toilet. The horn in the flange is large enough so that the toilet's outlet will still point down the drain without problems.

 

[AH81]

All of the measurements on porcelain stuff is 'nominal' or IOW, it's the average. Some will be slightly larger, some slightly smaller. Toto is usually pretty consistent. Check the tank, it may be able to be loosened and straightened up to help. Is the space behind the tank parallel with the wall, or does it lean one way or the other?

Oh I get that there can be slight variarion
s from one toilet to the next, but up to a 1/2" in various areas.

Ive measured 2 from different show rooms, 2 bowls at my house, and my neighbors that was made a few years ago. They are all consistantly very similar and do not follow the spec sheets.

For what its worth. I measured an Entrada and a Drake II. they matched the spec sheets.

 

[SteveW]

I went and looked at my Toto - the top of the tank is about 2" away from the wall. I never noticed this (I installed it).

I like the way it flushes so to me that's more important than the distance from the tank to the wall.

 

[Jadnashua]

What can also be confusing is that Toto makes LOTS of different versions of the Drake, so when you check the specs, you must ensure you're looking at the right one.

FWIW, Toto is somewhat unique in their porcelain production in that they use more of an injection process with the clay versus what most other do with liquid slip. This allows them to have much smaller variations and better precision in the end product. There still will be slight differences, but not as great as with most (all?) other brands.

 

[WJcandee]

I don't read the spec sheet as saying that the back of the base is gonna be 1.25 from the wall. As anybody who has installed a Drake knows, it's not. And that's a good thing, because otherwise it wouldn't be able to clear the base molding in many bathrooms when it is installed on a less-than-12" rough-in, which is a saving grace for many folks like myself. It's a joy to be able to put that puppy on a 10-7/8" rough-in and not have the back of the base hit the baseboard.

What I DO read the spec sheet to say is that the closest protrusion towards the wall (which is the back curve of the top of the bowl unit just below where the tank attaches) will be that distance from the wall. Measure that and I think you'll find that it's more approximately what the spec sheet says. The most-practical point of the spec sheet is to let you know that the thing isn't gonna bang against the wall if you have a less-than-12" rough in.

Toto does make at least 1 toilet that requires the entire 12 inches. So it's time to rip out the baseboard for anybody that wants to install that model, and they better have the whole 12" on the rough-in and a truly-plumb wall.

The Entrada gets high marks for value, and I have heard absolutely-nothing about it being in any way less durable or long-lasting than the Drake. Of course, when the porcelain in most quality toilets is going to last literally for decades, it should be a long time before anybody is in a position to compare. Does it last 50 years? Or only 40?

I personally think that your installation looks very, very nice, as does the work that you did in your bathroom. But if you want something that mounts closer to the wall, Toto makes plenty of them. No need to go to a lesser brand like Kohler.

 

[Jadnashua]

Assuming this is the right spec sheet https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst744eg-specs.pdf, if the tank is plumb, nominally, there'd be 3/4" between the tank and the wall and 1-5/8" from the base to the wall (not counting the baseboard.

 

[Terry]

A few installs.

 

[WJcandee]

Jim, your (Toto's recent) spec sheet shows the tank mounted further back on the bowl unit than does the poster's, and, oddly, that 3/4" measurement does not seem correct; it would mean that if you put the toilet on 10-7/8", the tank would be blocked by the wall, which it isn't.

 

[Treeman]

Just for fun, I measured my Toto Drake install done last year (C744EL/ST473S). My bolt C/L is 11.5 inches from the back wall. The base is about 7/8 inch from the wall and the tank (sans cover) is 1 inch from the wall. Adding the 1/2 inch C/L bolt difference nets base: 1 3/8 inch, tank 1.5 inch.

My toilet/back wall are fairly close to level/plumb. The OP's C/L "seems" to be about 12 1/8" ?.
Considering the adjustments, my install would equate to about 1/4" closer install compared to the OP's if my bolt C/L was equal to his.

I think the OP install looks good. It's something only he will notice. But, if my ocd kicked in, I might consider offsetting the toilet 3/8" closer to the wall and leave it be.

 

[Treeman]

Jim, your (Toto's recent) spec sheet shows the tank mounted further back on the bowl unit than does the poster's, and, oddly, that 3/4" measurement does not seem correct; it would mean that if you put the toilet on 10-7/8", the tank would be blocked by the wall, which it isn't.

Jim's pdf is reg. height. The OP's is ADA height.

Bizarre, but the TOTO ADA PDF link CST744EL copied from below turns into the pdf link Jim posted CST744SG (ADA ht. vs reg. ht.) when attempting to post it directly here:
https://www.totousa.com/drake-two-piece-toilet-16-gpf-ada-compliant-elongated-bowl

 

[JamaicaJoe]

This may be a bit late, but.. When I had my Master bath remodeled and roughed in for my Carlyle, the alignment was pretty critical for both centering the toilet and secondly setting it near to the wall. My old plumbing was in concrete so my plumber used an offset flange. He had a special router to cut the old PVC flange from inside, below the top of the slab and was able to glue the offset flange in its place. The results were exactly what I wanted because it could be rotated to center the base. In your case, if centering isn't too critical you can achieve the setback you wish by adjusting in this manner.

The rough in specs for the Carlyle were apparently correct. You do have to realize that "rough in" means new construction, so accommodation of thickness for the drywall, the tile (if any), the baseboard, all are considered in that dimension and if you are doing a remodel and are not changing these surfaces, you need to subtract them from the value. Otherwise you are double counting them and the base will be further from the wall.

Thankfully the plumber who did my rough in was great.

The guy who came out to finish, was not so great. five minutes after he left the driveway, the hot water line blew off one of my euro style faucets while I was admiring the flow and pondering the odd clanking sound from hoses beneath. Hey dummy, those are tapered threads with o-rings for a reason, no huge wad of teflon tape is required or recommended. I redid his work on both sinks rather than to have him come back and wrench those tight.

 

[Jadnashua]

The rough-in assumes a finished wall, but not including the baseboard. So, assuming you're considering a stock 12" rough-in, and using 1/2" drywall, the center of the flange should be 12.5" from the stud plate...more if you're planning on tile on the wall...it's the finished wall that is critical. Since those tend to not be perfect, most toilets have a little bit of designed space behind them so the tank isn't rubbing. That can vary from as little as 1/4" to nearly several inches, depending on the model and brand. The Carlyle is designed for a nominal 3/4" behind when everything is perfect.

 

[JamaicaJoe]

The Carlyle (version 1) MS874114SG rough in drawing is curiously silent on the wall being finished unlike the drawings I see now that say finished. I remember having the discussion with my contractor and we were working from the studs as the room was demoed. That toilet had rough in options of 12, 10 and 14 inches adjustable by changing a trap section.


https://www.totousa.com/filemanager_uploads/product_assets/SS-00157_MS874114S_SG.pdf

 

[Jadnashua]

That document shows a nominal 3/4" behind the tank when the rough-in is mated with either the 10, 12, or 14" Unifit AND the center of the toilet flange is at 10, 12, 0r 14".