Toilets, horizontal wet vents, and end of line cleanouts

[krik]

Situation: drain in slab and toilet near the upper end of a horizontal drain. Order of fixtures (in the room) is sink, toilet, shower. My current planned layout is as below, but I'm looking to see if I screwed up the horizontal wet vent or can simplify (mostly because placing the 3" cleanout in the wall is a pain). The long 90 is where it turns horizontal.

I'm assuming I can't use the toilet as the cleanout in Maine but don't know that for sure - otherwise I could start the 3" at the toilet and tie in the sink wet vent with a wye, right?

 

[Terry]

You can wet vent the lav over the toilet. The end of line cleanout would be there.
It's a santee off of the wet vent. You can go 42" on the trap arm with 1.5"

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Tom Sawyer]

You can use the toilet for a clean out in MaineMaine

 

[krik]

You can wet vent the lav over the toilet. The end of line cleanout would be there.

Thanks Terry and Tom. Glad to hear I don't have to put a 3" cleanout in the floor or wall! So would the design then look as follows, with a "rolled" 3x3x2 wye and a 2" cleanout in the vertical vent? And if I'm not mistaken there's a max length on the 2" wet vent that counts from the sanitee to the wye, right? How much does the wye need to roll - do I go 45 to be safe?

EDIT: I'm not showing the shower tie-in because that one has its own vent. It simply connects to the 3" downstream via a rolled wye + 45.

 

[krik]

Small modification: I have to closet bend -> 45 -> wye for wet vent -> 45 otherwise I can't make the turn without breaking out a bunch more concrete. Should still work, no?

 

[hj]

i like the first one, but without the "sidearm: for the sink. I dislike using a toilet as a cleanout with a passion, and when I do have to do it, it always costs the customer extra.

 

[FullySprinklered]

In one jurisdiction down the road, It was not acceptable to flush a toilet past a pipe of a smaller diameter. You could do a 3" wye and bush it down to 2" at the fitting and they would pass it.
One year into my plumbing career I abandoned one and a half inch pipe except for tub and lavatory connections. It was just another damn size of pipe, another darn box of fittings, and another doggone expensive hole-hog bit to buy. If there's some critical reason to use 1.5 pipe I don't know what it is.

 

[Terry]

In one jurisdiction down the road, It was not acceptable to flush a toilet past a pipe of a smaller diameter. You could do a 3" wye and bush it down to 2" at the fitting and they would pass it.
One year into my plumbing career I abandoned one and a half inch pipe except for tub and lavatory connections. It was just another damn size of pipe, another darn box of fittings, and another doggone expensive hole-hog bit to buy. If there's some critical reason to use 1.5 pipe I don't know what it is.

Running 2" gives you more future options. There's not much you can do with a 1.5" waste line.

 

[krik]

Running 2" gives you more future options. There's not much you can do with a 1.5" waste line.

I should be Ok with the 2" vent down to the 3x3x2 tee though, right? And that tee should be rolled up to 45 deg or can it tie in flat? The 3x3x3 wye + bushing seems odd, but if it's a safer bet I'll do that also.

 

[Terry]

The 2" will vent the toilet and serves as the drain for the lav.
A 3x2 wye is fine there. And I like to roll them.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

You don't have to roll the wye.

 

[Terry]

You don't have to roll the wye.

True.

 

[krik]

You can use the toilet for a clean out in MaineMaine

Tom, FYI I just got word from the inspector (who in turn asked someone at the state regulatory level) that toilets are *not* allowed as a cleanout equivalent in Maine.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Me thinks you were lied to.

 

[krik]

Me thinks you were lied to.

I would like that to be true, but given the source I have my doubts - my inspector is certainly not going to let it fly without some evidence to the contrary. Can you point me to a reference that show we can use the toilet? [Edit] From what I can tell at some point UPC removed some wording from 707.4 about this (striking "or a removable fixture trap"), and I can't find anything specific to Maine about cleanout equivalents like you would find in other states' plumbing code.

 

[hj]

quote; It was not acceptable to flush a toilet past a pipe of a smaller diameter.

Boy, that would sure make plumbing systems complicated. All of the toilets would have to be at the front of the building and everything else towards the rear. Normally, that prohibition only applies to "unvented" smaller connections. WHY are you fighting against putting the cleanout in the wall? It is the "smart thing" to do.

 

[krik]

WHY are you fighting against putting the cleanout in the wall? It is the "smart thing" to do.

Smart yes, but also much more complicated. I'd need to run 3" up a 2x4 wall and make it fit so I don't have a cleanout visibly sticking out. In this case it puts the cleanout behind the vanity accessible through the cabinet, but even then I have do to some acrobatics tying it in. I'm going for looks, not ease of use for unclogging - IOW, I'll happily pull the toilet or move the vanity for such a case if it means the bathroom looks more aesthetically pleasing, and pulling toilet would be the easiest option in all respects.

 

[hj]

However, IF you pulled the toilet before I got there to snake it, I would have to reinstall it to test for the problem, then remove it if it were a main line stoppage, in any case, no matter what you did, it will cost you more to use the toilet as a cleanout. What is on the other side of the wall, because that is where we usually put the cleanout plug?