Toilet Venting Issue

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FlyingScot

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Redoing a bathroom with an unusual drain situation for which I am not responsible. The toilet currently sits directly atop a 3” (may be 4”) vertical ABS waste pipe that connects to the main drain under concrete and 3+ feet of dirt. The sink had a trap that drained into its own 2” ( I think) vertical PVC pipe into an older clay pipe through the same concrete and dirt and into the main drain. This pipe is directly underneath the sink not in the wall. The plumbing is in a ground level crawl space about 3ft above the basement floor. Nothing in this bathroom is vented however there is an atmospheric vent approximately 15 ft away that vents the remainder of the fixtures for the house (full bath, kitchen sink, dishwasher, W/D) which happen to all be on the same side of the house. The drain serving the second bathroom was installed and tied into the main drain 50+ years ago before the basement floor was concreted. I need to vent the new fixtures but due to the architecture of the house I cannot vent through the roof or through the wall. It simply cannot be done due to windows and soffits with vents. The toilet is the main issue. I think it will have to be vented on it’s own because it isn’t connected to the sink and I’m unsure if it can be. My municipality allows AAVs in these types of situations but because of the vertical orientation of the drain pipe I’m unclear on how to install it and I cannot for the life of me find any resources that comment on my situation. Can an AAV be installed in one side of a sanitary Y or is it absolutely necessary to install it in a horizontal length of pipe? And could we accomplish this with a San Y, 45 degree elbow and a short length of pipe with the end capped off? I know AAVs are not the best way but for my situation it really is the only way. FTR the toilet and sink functioned perfectly despite the wonky plumbing.
 

FlyingScot

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Also, I am aware that the toilet drain is not old. Not sure when it was installed but it was before the crawl space had a concrete floor poured. I’ve been here for 21 years and it was before I moved in.
 

Reach4

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I am not sure what a vent would add but if you add one, let it be a real vent. I think an AAV would not help IMO, because the problem venting solves for a toilet, as I see it, is to get the air out of the way of the slug of water coming. I am not a plumber.
 

FlyingScot

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Trust me, if I could I would. It cannot be done due to the architecture of the house. The toilet worked fine without being vented at all but I am forced to vent it due to code. I won’t pass inspection without it but the plumbing inspector will not offer any help as to what WILL pass. I know that AAV’s have significant shortcomings but my hands are tied.
 

Cacher_Chick

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You can install a vent through the roof, but it may require you to construct a service channel, false wall, or soffit in order to hide it. Your existing drain stack should be should of as just that, and all of the other fixtures can be plumbed to it along with being properly vented.
 

FlyingScot

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I appreciate everyone’s attempts to help but I’m not kidding when I say it cannot be vented through the roof. The bathroom is in a projection from the back of the house. Set back just above it is a shed dormer. The shed dormer has windows all across it. Code requires that no venting be situated directly below or within 10 feet horizontally from an operable window. The furthest I would be able to get it away is 6 ft. Not gonna fly. The only way to get around that would be to have an app 12 foot high vent pipe because it would have to terminate 3ft above the top edge of the windows. It can’t go out the back wall because of vented soffits and the 10 ft restriction and it can’t go out the side walls because of the 10 foot thing and the other side is a porch. I can’t run a vent pipe up behind the toilet then over to a potential place to vent it atmospherically because there is a window there as well. I can’t run it up the side wall to the atmospheric option because the foundation masonry is in the way. If there is a way to wet vent it through the lav I’m all ears. Seriously, I’m trying to do this the right way but this house is 107 years old which presents some significant obstacles.
 
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Cacher_Chick

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More often than not one needs to see something in order to really understand. Where I am venting out a side wall is strictly prohibited, so it is never a consideration. I have been on sites that have had to use a fixed window where they would have liked to use an operable one. You need a 2" vent for the entire bath group. Once it is at least 6" above the flood rim of the sink, a vent can be ran horizontally (with pitch) for a long distance if need be to get to a suitable location for exiting.

Where I am a shed is where you park your tractor. ;)
 

FlyingScot

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More often than not one needs to see something in order to really understand. Where I am venting out a side wall is strictly prohibited, so it is never a consideration. I have been on sites that have had to use a fixed window where they would have liked to use an operable one. You need a 2" vent for the entire bath group. Once it is at least 6" above the flood rim of the sink, a vent can be ran horizontally (with pitch) for a long distance if need be to get to a suitable location for exiting.

Where I am a shed is where you park your tractor. ;)

My house is a bungalow with multiple roof lines, deep eaves and projections. It makes doing anything externally challenging. I’ll try to get pictures if that would help. Making the window not operable is not an option. For one thing I would have to make all of them non-operable which with the type of windows wouldn’t be possible and I don’t have AC so functional windows are a must. To run a vent pipe through the roof would require cutting large holes in the ceiling of the adjacent room as well as demolishing part of a wall in an upstairs bedroom so I can get to the roof of the dormer. If it was Sheetrock that would be fine but it’s lath and plaster. Hard pass. I would never be able to replicate the walls. It would ruin them not to mention the mess. However, I had a thought. If I tied everything to the ABS drain, capped off the clay pipe and wet-vented the toilet and shower via the lav I might be able to fudge the code by running a vent pipe from the lav up the wall into a small void that’s there then out the roof along the side of the dormer, essentially around the corner and well away from the windows. It just might pass. Below is an example of the type of dormer I have. This isn’t my house, mine is smaller, but imagine the right half of the open porch being closed. That would be where the bathroom is. If anybody has an idea how to deal with this I’m open to them.

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FlyingScot

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Update. Plumbing is done and I passed my inspection with an AAV in the closet wall (accessible by a fenstrated panel). Inspector was pleased with what we had done although part of the venting for the shower was a little unconventional. He was a very reasonable guy. Turned on the water supply to the new PEX manifold and no leaks anywhere which shocked the heck out of me given how physically difficult it was for me to crimp the copper rings. Really hard job that I’m glad ended well. Now to start hanging drywall. Very thankful for an inspector that was willing to work with me.
 
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