Toilet supply valve help

[Brayburn]

Hey everyone. Thanks in advance for reading / helping.

I am doing a "light" remodel of a 1938 bathroom including replacing the fixtures. The picture shows the toilet supply line valve. Rather than a supply line nut, it appears the vertical pipe is a threaded pipe that is mounted into the valve itself - though perhaps at the factory. It certainly doesn't detach easily. It works fine, but I'm uncertain what to use at the top of this pipe to then run on to the new toilet. The previous toilet's inlet literally sat right on top of this pipe, but the new one won't exactly match up.

Thanks!

Barry

 

[Jadnashua]

It's always a good idea to update the shutoff valve when replacing a toilet. Slide the eschution away from the wall to see if it is threaded on or soldered on. The shape of the valve implies it is threaded onto a chromed nipple, and it may just unscrew from there. To keep from unscrewing it in the wall, you'd want to grab it with some pliers behind that trim so it won't show from the scratches, and then get a new valve that just screws back onto that nipple. Get a 1/4-turn ball valve. Use some pipe dope or teflon tape on the threads, and be done with it in about 5-minutes. the new one will have the right fitting to just screw on a modern flexible supply. Or, you could use a solid riser with a compression fitting (more work).

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Brayburn]

Thanks, Jim. Behind the eschution I can see the copper pipe from the wall for about 3/4 of an inch before it enters the chrome piece seen in the original photo. Not sure if this changes your thoughts. I think there's enough of the copper pipe to hold onto. Is it the entire chromed piece that would/could unscrew or just the more "blocky" looking piece at the front?

Barry

 

[Terry]

I would love to see a picture of that.
Normally on copper, you can install a compression shutoff.
If it's brass, you may have a threaded stop.

 

[Brayburn]

Hey Terry. Thanks for jumping in. Pic below. This is taken w/ the camera flush to the tile wall. Once I cleaned it, I'm not sure the smaller pipe is copper, but I assume it is. The larger chromed pipe appears to be soldered onto the smaller pipe.

Would the business end of the valve as shown above come off the larger chrome pipe?

Thanks.

 

[Jadnashua]

Can you see any threads on the pipe just before it goes into the valve? If not, then that whole thing is soldered onto the copper pipe. Brasscraft makes a replacement like that (I have one in my bathroom).

http://www.brasscraft.com/PDF/0300_Water_Supplies_Catalog.pdf Top of page 11 would work. Unless the valve is threaded on, you'll either need to leave what's there ( it may be a pain getting a 'normal' toilet supply line connected to it), or unsolder what's there and replace with a new one. If you got the pipe really clean, you may be able to use a compression fitting rather than soldering on a new one.

 

[Brayburn]

I don't see any threads at either horizontal joint - the wall pipe to the chrome pipe or the chrome pipe to the blocky part of the valve. Looks like I'm going to have to remove this valve from the wall pipe and reconnect. Is it worth trying a compression fitting or better to just bite the bullet and resolder a new valve?

 

[JohnjH2o1]

You can remove the riser from the existing valve and install a 3/8" male X 3/8" OD compression fitting. This will allow you to use a toilet supply.

John

 

[Brayburn]

Thanks, John. I briefly tried to unscrew the riser from the valve assembly but it didn't budge with modest force. I was a little reluctant to try too much harder as I hadn't shut of the water main at that point and I was afraid I'd end up breaking the valve itself. It does look like the riser is threaded into the valve body, but I didn't know if this was a factory install that would be hard to remove or not. I like this option as it seems least "invasive" but wasn't sure it could happen.

 

[Brayburn]

Ok, I've tried to remove the riser with fairly significant force and it doesn't appear to budge. Looks like I'm going to be unsoldering from the copper line and installing a new valve assembly all the way back. This joint is pretty close to the tile wall - any particular way to shield the wall tiles from the torch while I unsolder?

Thanks.

 

[Schipperke]

Remove

You probably do not need to get the torch close to the joint itself. I'd try cutting up a coffee can, flatten it out and configure to drop over the stub to shield the wall. I see more of a problem sweating a new valve on. If you can clean up he copper pipe and there is enough there, I'd try a compression fit valve on it as suggested earlier. I had mentioned a sharkbite, but if there is not enough space to get a removal tool between the wall and the fitting, could be a problem

 

[Terry]

Have a spray bottle handy, put heat on the fitting and slide off.
I'm guessing 50/50 solder in something that old, which comes off pretty easily.
If it wipes off with a rag nicely, you may be able to emery cloth it smooth and use compression, if not there is always solder.
If you can use compression, you can also use something like a sharkbite fitting.

 

[Jadnashua]

The copper may have been inserted nearly all the way to the valve, so you will have to heat the chromed shaft a bit. the solder wouldn't have flowed the full distance, but it could have gone a good ways and may surprise you. With that vertical section, make sure you shut the main water supply off and open a valve below this one to drain the water out of the pipe (open this one, too). Have a cotton cloth ready, and as soon as you get the thing pulled off, use the cloth to wipe the solder off. Then you'll have a chance of fitting the new one over it. Don't make the mistake of using a synthetic fiber cloth, as it may just melt.

 

[Brayburn]

Thanks all. I've got my materials together and will launch into this one evening this week. Looks like there's a cutoff in the basement for this bathroom, so that simplifies a bit. I greatly appreciate all the suggestions and help.

 

[ohjoe]

May just be a chrome cover tube over a copper stub

Thanks all. I've got my materials together and will launch into this one evening this week. Looks like there's a cutoff in the basement for this bathroom, so that simplifies a bit. I greatly appreciate all the suggestions and help.

Dumb question but will the chrome tube running through the escutcheon turn? The horizontal chrome tube may simply be a cover tube that was slid over the copper tubing to trim out the stub and supply stop installation. If the valve is removed the chrome tube will slide off the stub sticking out from the wall. The chrome tube may just be corroded and stuck to the copper but will turn if you grab it with pliers. If the chrome tube will turn, you can slide it back toward the wall and either cut the newly exposed copper tube near the valve or heat the valve and remove it and clean up the stub. Then, you can sweat on or use a sharkbite type connection with a new valve. You won't have to dig into the wall.

 

[Brayburn]

Well ... thanks to all. I did finally get the riser loose and was able to place a new 3/8" nipple that accepted a standard compression fitting for the new toilet. Probably not as compulsive as replacing the entire valve, but there was so little room between the wall and the fitting that I was afraid I'd end up getting into a much bigger mess. All is now connected and working well. Thank you so much ... it's a great site and service Terry.

Barry

 

[bbosu]

Similar Problem

Hi brayburn -

I am dealing with a near-identical problem--a riser that wont budge (a tiling project which has our sole bathroom out of commission for 2+ days now).

I tried (as suggested in the thread) to hold the valve pipe with one wrench while applying strong, consistent force to the riser--so far I have given near full strength on rotating the riser, but have only succeeded in denting the riser itself. What did you do that eventually got some action on the riser? Could you give me any suggestions on how to get the riser to start spinning?

Thanks,
Jon

 

[bbosu]

Seized/Stuck Piping

I consulted a few DiYers and was able to get the pipe out and wanted to post so that anyone encountering a similar problem would save some time, tapping was the solution.

Gently tapping the intersection of the pipes with a hammer, tapping on all sides of the pipe for 3-4 minutes loosened enough of the corroded materials and allowed me to remove the riser with two pipe wrenches.

Good luck to all other DiYers out there.