Toilet Question

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storm62

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Hello Everyone I have an issue with one of my Bathroom Toilets.. The tank slowly drains and you here it fill at different times of the day or night.. So here is what i did--Installed New Flapper Flapper valve is clean and good. Still tank level drains! I even bought a Korky repair kit for the flapper valve Comes with New ring new flapper and some glue.. Last night after a clean flush I shut the main water supply to the tank off-- Now get this--The tank only dropped to Half in 12 hrs its not dropping anymore!!! Could the plastic Fill tube have a hair line crack in it that i dont see? Is that something that can happen? The tank only drained to half of that Tube! I attached 2 pictures... House is only a few years old...
 

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Jadnashua

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Another place it could be leaking is around the base of the flapper seat. On most toilet tanks, that is held in by a big nut and sealed with a rubber washer on the bottom of the tank. To check that, you'd need to remove the tank and you'd need a BIG pair of pliers or wrench to tighten. BUT, since it is now stopping 1/2-way, that is unlikely the problem. The overflow tube could have a crack in it. This also assumes things aren't leaking outside onto the floor, as the tank could have a crack in it as well.
 

Reach4

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Could the plastic Fill tube have a hair line crack in it that i dont see? Is that something that can happen? The tank only drained to half of that Tube!
A leak in the filler valve could not cause the level to drop, because the filler contains water under pressure. The refill tube, which goes down the overflow could let water siphon out to a point, but that is not happening here: you have the clip that keeps the end of the tube from hang down into the refill tube.

The large diameter tube is called the overflow tube. A crack in that could indeed cause your symptoms. Yet the new flush valve came with a new overflow tube, didn't it?

I cannot tell how slack or tight your chain is. It looks like there might be some twisted links there. If there is tension in the chain, that could lift the flapper very slightly and cause a slow leak. Straighten your chain and make sure there is a bit of slack.

Sorry to hear that the flush valve (flapper valve) replacement did not solve the problem.
 

storm62

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Thanks!! Yeah the chain is fine and no water leaking outside the tank! I just checked the tank again the level is the same 1/2 tank its not draining anymore.. The only thing.. I cant think of anything else? Everything is still underwater and the draining stopped at 1/2 The only thing thats not underwater now is the plastic fill tube.. I looked there good with bright lights i dont see any cracks! The large nut that holds the Flapper valve in-Can water seep from there and go into the bowl not my floor? I thought that large nut with the seals that holds the flapper valve assy in place stops water from leaking outside the tank!
Can water drain into my bowl after the flapper--And if so why did it stop 1/2 way? Strange indeed..
 

storm62

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Hello everyone Well today I changed the entire Guts of my Tank-All new--And would you believe I cant make this crap up--The tank level is still dropping!!!!! When i had the tank off it looked perfect no cracks no problems--No leaks on the floor everything is dry!!!! The tank fills to the fill line--Then after about an hour you see the water level drop below the water line--and more as the day goes on! I even turn off the Main water line to the tank thinking maybe something is back feeding into my water supply--LOL I dont understand this!!! Any Guesses?? Thanks..
 

WJcandee

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What guts did you replace, and with what? I'm assuming you mean you replaced both the fill valve and the flush valve.

You could just be unlucky enough to have a defective replacement flush valve or the chain is too tight.

The common causes of this are (in sort of descending order), as most have said above:

(1) Needs new flapper;
(2) Needs to clean flush valve seat with brillo;
(3) Chain too tight (keeping flapper slightly off seat);
(4) Chain too loose (slipping under flapper edge);
(5) Needs flush valve seat repair kit;
(6) Refill hose stuck down into overflow riser;
(7) Crack in overflow riser (usually a vertical crack that starts under where the clip for the refill hose is attached);
(8) Leaks around tank-to-bowl bolts or around flush valve connection to tank.

Before you replaced the parts, I was going to say that if it falls to 1/2 tank and stops there with the water turned off at the wall, and you used the flush valve repair kit, it was going to be a crack in the overflow riser or something about the flush valve seat or the chain. You want basically one link of slack in the chain to droop on the top of the flapper with the trip arm at rest.

If it wasn't those things, some more esoteric possibilities are: (1) there is a leak somewhere around the flapper or flush valve seat that is miniscule, and when the tank level drops (and thus the head pressure at the valve drops), it is able to seal; or (2) you have a toilet (like one of mine) where when you put the lid back on the tank, it slightly-depresses the trip arm, tightening the chain and standing the flapper off the valve slightly, so a small amount of water flows. That last one is a huge longshot, but maybe worth mentioning.

The bottom line is just to check all the possibilities. You have a china vessel that has just four holes in it and gets filled with water. One hole isn't relevant if you have a modern anti-siphon fill valve, two holes (the tank to bowl bolts) would leak onto the floor in most cases, and any cracks in the vessel would leak onto the floor. So the only place you really have to focus is the hole for the flush valve and what you have stuck in that hole to block the water. If you have given the big plastic nut under the tank a hand-tight turn and then another quarter-turn, that should be enough, and generally you can see if there is a leak there. Sanding the bottom of the tank lightly around the big hole and around the bolt holes to give a smooth surface sometimes helps, but most of those leaks are obvious, and your leak isn't obvious. So that leaves you with the flush valve/overflow riser itself, or the flapper and its ability to stop water. You might be able to test the flush valve by disconnecting the flapper from its chain and pressing it securely into place, then seeing whether there is a leak. Sometimes, the flapper doesn't drop squarely on top of the flush valve, because either it isn't attached right at the ear/hooks, or because the chain pulls it to one side or the other.

Me personally, I am guessing that there was a problem with your prior flush valve (like a vertical crack that you could find by pinching it at the top), and you replaced it but induced some new issue with the new flush valve, perhaps something related to the flapper or chain length or how the flapper is attached or drops on the flush valve seat.

Shoot us a couple of photos of your pristine new setup, and let us see if we can see anything obvious.

We will work it through until you get it fixed.
 

storm62

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Wow thank you so much!! Awesome! I did everything you said! When this all started about a week ago- I changed the flapper--No big deal--Cleaned the flapper valve (It was clean).. Same problem slow tank drain... So i went out and bought a Korky Flapper drain valve repair kit--Simple! The kit came with a new Flapper a plastic flapper ring and some glue.. Glue the ring over the flapper valve wait 15 mins then attach new flapper and bingo it should be good--Nope--Same things Tank drains ever so slowly over night.. Today i said thats it--I went to Lowes bought a complete Fluid master kit-Water fill valve --flapper valve - new bolts--COMPLETE all new --i took the tank off the bowl inspected the tank it was good--Clean no problems (The house in only 8 years old) I reinstalled everything Big nut on bottom TIGHT-all the bolts nice and tight--The flapper is Free the chain is not to tight or Loose--I ve changed many of these in my time--So none of this is new to me.. Filled the tank--Watched the water rise to the water line then walked away --LEFT TANK COVER OFF came back about an hour later and noticed the water dropped down a hair below the water line--So i walked away again--After another Hour i saw the water line was now above the water--And this is where i stand today! I have two bathrooms Same exact toilets--Infact the inside of both now have the same parts from fluid master--they look exact! The one bathroom works 100% What i dont understand is--I have all new parts everything was changed!! No leaks outside the tank the tank outside is dry! Water is seeping into the bowl.. Before i bought everything new today i went through 3 New flappers thinking maybe its the flapper--New flapper valve repair kit and Now everything changed! Strange it is!! Thanks for your input! Mark
 

WJcandee

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I don't love those Fluidmaster flappers, but their connection to the protrusions on the flush valve usually is pretty straightforward, so that's not it. I would push the flapper clearly into place and turn off the water for an hour and see what happens.

It is likely something to do with the flapper-to-valve seal or a defect in the new overflow riser/flush valve, and/or something to do with the chain, although I know you know how to do this.

Also I would love to see some photos.
 

storm62

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I would push the flapper clearly into place and turn off the water for an hour and see what happens. I did that just what you said about an hour ago--And BINGO the water level didnt move a hair off the water line?? Now what? How many times to i have to do that?? LOL Amazed!! Thanks for that info!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mark
 

Wallijonn

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I even turn off the Main water line to the tank thinking maybe something is back feeding into my water supply.

Turn off the wall water valve, instead.

Could the plastic [Over] Fill tube have a hair line crack in it that I don't see?

Possibly. Especially at the base where it meets the flapper assembly.

It's time for you to swap water tanks between the two toilets. If the problem switches to the other toilet you know it's in the tank guts. If the problem stays with the original toilet then you know it's possibly a bad bowl. You will need to pull it, auger it, replace the wax seal. Any smells in the problem toilet room?
 

WJcandee

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Wallijohn just appears to have missed your most recent post, which indicated that the leak stops completely if you push the new flapper into place in the new flush valve.

So it's clearly now the seal between the flapper and the flush valve on the new guts, and likely was something else on the old guts. Like I said, I don't love that Fluidmaster flapper design, but we should be able to figure it out. If it isn't the chain holding it off, it may be the chain pulling to one side or the other, and then it's just not dropping fully into place on the flush valve seat or not dropping straight into place on the flush valve seat.

I look forward to your photos. We're almost there.
 
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