Toilet on concrete floor: bolt sleeves instead of flange ?

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Missoula

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I am replacing a basement toilet that had developed cracks on both sides of the base. The toilet was not level, but it did not leak. The basement floor is concrete (1960s) and the waste line is 4-inch cast iron.

There is no flange, which I’ve learned is not rare for toilets installed on concrete floors. However, it looks like there are threaded sleeves installed in the concrete, and the bolts that secure the toilet go into the sleeves. At first, I thought there might be tile on top of an old flange, but you can see the sleeves rise above the floor a little, so I don’t think there is a flange. The sleeves are secure and do not wobble. Given that the previous toilet (from 1981) did not leak and the bolt sleeves are solid, is there any need to install a flange or do any other repair?

The toilet I removed was installed with a standard wax ring and an extended plastic horn (see image). I was planning to use a wax free gasket (e.g., Fluidmaster 7530P8 or Korky 6000BP) for the new toilet (Toto Entrada b/c small space), because I’m not confident I’ll be able to shim the toilet level on the first try. Please let me know if you think wax free will work in this situation with no flange and a recessed (1/2-inch or so) waste pipe.

Thanks for your help.

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Terry

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I think those rubber seals are meant for a smooth flange. I'm not so sure that they work for what you have.

As far as shimming goes, put the bowl down without wax, and shim it.
Then lift the bowl up, and drop some wax down, now you're ready to set the bowl.
 

wwhitney

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Is the top of the cast iron flat, or is there a divot missing I think I see at around 5 o'clock in the photo? If the latter, does that represent a problem for getting the wax to seal properly?

Cheers, Wayne
 

Missoula

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Thanks for the responses. Yes wwhitney, the edge of the cast iron is pretty jagged. To help illustrate that, here’s a new photo with a standard wax ring on the surface. Part of the problem here is that I have 4-inch waste line, but the bell/flare that the wax ring goes on top of is actually a 5-inch ID opening. The bolts going into the concrete floor are 6 ¾ inches apart.

The previous toilet did not leak. I’ve never seen so much wax under any other toilet I’ve changed, so maybe that’s how they made it work. However, that toilet got very little use in the past. My kid will be moving into the basement, which means the new toilet will be getting used much more. I want to fix this if possible and it does not involve tearing up the floor.

Is it worth trying a PushTite flange, which I assume I would slip over the existing bolts and then use nuts to secure?

Alternatively, I could mash that standard wax ring inside the waste pipe and mold it to the edges, and then put the extra thick ring with horn on top of that? My concern is that a big chunk of wax might eventually end up breaking off and then clogging the drain.

ring.jpg
 

Terry

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They make a repair closet flange that drops inside the pipe there.

neorest-install-03.jpg


These come in many sized, including some for cast iron pipe.

closet-flange-repair-insert-3.jpg


Or you can drop the standard ring there, and then drop a wax with horn over that. It does need a complete seal.
 
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