Toilet Flange

[BlueArcher]

Working on a bathroom remodel, and I had some professional plumbers do most of the rough-in work. They seem to have done a decent job but for other reasons I won't get in to, I had to remove them from the job. Now I have the task of trying to finish things myself and I am coming up on a dilemma with the toilet. Hopefully I am not missing something obvious.

84 year old house, this bathroom has the original toilet, which we want to rebuild and keep. JL Mott & Co, and the model is a Lombard. The drain output size is a little larger than modern toilets, more like 2 7/8" ID and almost 3 1/2" OD.

The plumbers stubbed out a 3" pipe that replaced the original cast iron, but as the Ditra+tile is going in now, it's looking like the 3" elbow hub is going to rise higher than the finished floor by 1/4" to 1/2". They also glued the stub out in.

I am not quite sure how to best go about sitting a toilet flange on the finished floor in this state. Want to avoid an "inside pipe" style due to size, but even if I went with that, it would be sitting on top of the hub and not the floor. Other option appears to be a hub saver to ream the stub out from the hub and glue in a 3" pipe size flange, but still have the same problem of sitting on top of the hub. Do I need to also cut the top of the hub down with an inside pipe cutter? Or something else? Did they screw me?

Pictures attached, unfortunately I didn't get a great shot when the floor was open but you can see the elbow a little.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Argh.. a 4x3 closet flange should have been installed there. In this instance I would shave the wood/ditra from around the hub of the 90 and install a 4" straight flange over the hub of the 90 and reem out the pipe from the hub.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

What does that second picture show? Is that the pipe after you removed the black cap, or is it a hub after you have pulled the unglued piece of pipe? It looks to me as if what you show has about a 3 inch ID. A 3 inch pipe has a 3-inch ID. A 3 inch hub has about a 3.5 inch ID.

How high will the finished floor come to? Maybe bridge that area with a board or level, to the height the finished floor would come to. Then take a photo viewed about 30 degrees above horizontal.

 

[BlueArcher]

What does that second picture show? Is that the pipe after you removed the black cap, or is it a hub after you have pulled the unglued piece of pipe? It looks to me as if what you show has about a 3 inch ID. A 3 inch pipe has a 3-inch ID. A 3 inch hub has about a 3.5 inch ID.

toilet drain

How high will the finished floor come to? Maybe bridge that area with a board or level, to the height the finished floor would come to. Then take a photo viewed about 30 degrees above horizontal.

I'll get a better idea at the end of today after the tilers are done.

 

[Reach4]

toilet drain

Are you saying that is the underside of the toilet? That is unusually large, if so.

Is that a retro-looking new toilet, or a reconditioned older toilet? Especially if it is an older toilet, check the rough-in. The plumbers probably placed the piping so that the middle would be 12 inches from the expected finished wall. Check.

 

[BlueArcher]

Argh.. a 4x3 closet flange should have been installed there. In this instance I would shave the wood/ditra from around the hub of the 90 and install a 4" straight flange over the hub of the 90 and reem out the pipe from the hub.

You're saying the 4" inside flange fits on the outside of 3" hub? I think you're on to something. I don't have to do much trimming on the wood, it has a gap that was spray foamed, it should fit as is.

 

[BlueArcher]

Are you saying that is the underside of the toilet? That is unusually large, if so.

Is that a retro-looking new toilet, or a reconditioned older toilet? Especially if it is an older toilet, check the rough-in. The plumbers probably placed the piping so that the middle would be 12 inches from the expected finished wall. Check.

84 year old house, this bathroom has the original toilet, which we want to rebuild and keep. JL Mott & Co, and the model is a Lombard. The drain output size is a little larger than modern toilets, more like 2 7/8" ID and almost 3 1/2" OD.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

You're saying the 4" inside flange fits on the outside of 3" hub? I think you're on to something. I don't have to do much trimming on the wood, it has a gap that was spray foamed, it should fit as is.

Correct.. an old timers trick I learned when I was a kid.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Figured that trick out myself when I was new to the trade , not really a secret it wasent meant to be that way I dont think but works fine. perfect situation !

 

[BlueArcher]

i don't typically get calipers out during construction, but in this case I did. measuring varous points, the elbow hub ranges from 0.20" to 0.30" above the finished tile. I suspect that even with this 4" flange, I'd have to shave that hub down, but I haven't tried to fit it yet.

 

[BlueArcher]

I didn't get to tell the tiler what we were planning, so he also put the tiles too tight. Hopefully a diamond blade on an oscillating tool can do well enough to create the clearance. Is there a better way? Dremel?

 

[Jeff H Young]

cut it down after you glue closet flange on flush with top

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Since the tile hasn't been grouted yet, there is a lot of risk that vibration will loosen up tiles. I prefer an angle grinder to cut stuff like that. Might even be worth having your tile installer do it before they grout so that if a tile pops they can re-adhere it. The toilet also has a footprint that will cover a bit past the side of the flange too.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Good advice tuttles. I think the grinder less likely to upset the tiles they are small so they might pop off easier .

 

[Reach4]

I was wondering about breaking some tiles, while using safety glasses, with a cold chisel and hammer.

Or even try prying out some tiles with a flat blade screwdriver. That would be nice and safe. Try that on the front or back, so there is more space that will be covered by the toilet, in case something goes wrong..

I hope the rough-in number for the toilet matches your new plumbing.

 

[BlueArcher]

I hope the rough-in number for the toilet matches your new plumbing.

i should measure it, but if they screwed that up I am going to make them fix all this anyway. they had access to the toilet in advance, and their master plumber measured it and took pictures for the quote.

I have some flex here, though because the tank is wall mounted and connects with a 2" elbow pipe.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Blue Archer is reusing and rebuilding the original toilet in this 84 year old house So it would be no excuse to rough it in wrong