Toilet flange over slab and tile

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by djarchow, Mar 18, 2021.

  1. djarchow

    djarchow Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2018
    Location:
    Iowa
    I am finishing our basement. My tile guy finished laying tile yesterday and is coming back today to grout. When I looked, I noticed he had tile just over the edge of the 3" drain pipe which won't work with a hub flange. I measured around the pipe to see how much tile he was going to have to cut out and just noticed the hole in the slab is 6" which is the same as the bolt diameter of the flange. The slab was poured with a plastic tube which had foam inside it to allow some wiggle room with the drain. So now I have two problems. The overlapping tile can be cut away but unless I get in there and try to tear out the vinyl tube and foam, even filling the tube with concrete won't be secure since the bolt holes would be right on the plastic. Any suggestions on how to fix this with the least amount of tile tear out?

    As always, thanks for the great help here on Terry's forum.

    20210318_122849.jpg
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    I think you are resigned to an inside closet flange.


    PASCO 21013, Jones Stephens C85000, and Superior 21015 are repair rings with mounting tabs outside. I am thinking that you pre-screw a closet flange to one of those, and put that assembly down. Presumably the mounting ears will extend outside of the plastic. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Superior-Tool-Toilet-Anchor-Flange/1061201
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-Fix-it-Toilet-Flange-Repair-Ring-42775/300279621
    https://www.zoro.com/superior-tool-closet-flange-super-ring-metal-21015/i/G1593392/


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    You could use a nice glue-in flange with a stainless ring. You might be able to use a 888-GPM or 888-GAM Inside 3" PLASTIC Ring, Push Tite. That has flaps to seal, rather than glue.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2021
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  4. djarchow

    djarchow Member

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    Dec 9, 2018
    Location:
    Iowa
    Reach4,

    My tile guy is cutting out the piece that was overlapping the waste pipe. I was talking to him about how to screw down the flange and he said that the plumbers he works with normally don't screw down the flange over tile on concrete as they don't want to risk cracking a tile. They just bed the edges of the flange in something like Loctite powergrab ultimate. We are under the UPC and it appears to require screws so not sure how that passes inspection.

    I think the Superior Super ring should work and the screw holes should be over the concrete. I will pick one up tonight to be sure.

    I am curious though; the 6" vinyl form you can see in my photo is obviously used for making a form around the waste pipe for pouring the concrete. It had a vinyl seal on the top that you had to cut off to get to the pipe and Styrofoam in it to support the pipe. If this was meant to stay in place after the concrete pour, how do they expect you to secure the flange since the diameter of the hole is the same as the screw holes on the flange, and there is only an inch or so below the surface of the concrete until the foam so not enough to get much concrete in the hole.

    Again, thanks!
     
  5. James Henry

    James Henry In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2019
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Billings, Montana.
    The foam wrap around is usually put there on a 3" pipe so you can glue down outside 3" toilet flange. That doesn't look like it was planned out very good.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    You can drill ceramic tile. For porcelean tile, you can do it in theory, but it is very hard. I have never tried that. Ceramic was hard enough for me.

    Especially if porcelain, I would have the tile guy make clearance. That would involve getting the repair ring in hand, I think. You will also want to find some hardware to bind the pieces together. Depending on how holes line up, maybe pop rivets or short machine screws with nuts.
     
  7. djarchow

    djarchow Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2018
    Location:
    Iowa
    Actually I just measured, I have 2 3/4" from the tile to the foam. So no problem gluing the flange. Securing it is the only challenge.
     
  8. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

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    Feb 27, 2020
    Location:
    92346
    Correct our code requires the flange attached to floor . on a normal job with inspectors ive almost always installed flanges at rough inspection or Ive been failed or told on multiple projects where you are doing say 100 or 50 homes on the first 5 houses he says hey wheres the flanges you need those on and you look like a dummy many times thell say nex time put them on befor you call.
    on ground floor cut the tile around where ring will but will get covered by w/c glue ring on leave space for some sluury drop some screwes in while wet if wet enough you can use screwes bent like an L. or drill after mud has set
     
  9. djarchow

    djarchow Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2018
    Location:
    Iowa
    Jeff, thanks for the reply. Our inspector is fine with the flange not being installed at rough inspection.

    I am not clear on what you are suggesting. Are you saying we should cut out the tile around the flange and install it on the concrete like it had been installed before tile and then bed it in thinset and then either drill into the thinset later or put the screws in the wet thinset?

    Thanks again.
     
    Jeff H Young likes this.
  10. djarchow

    djarchow Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2018
    Location:
    Iowa
    I found this. Seems like a good option since it can extend out further than the repair rings can. This version is by Sioux Chief but Oatey makes one too.

    sioux_chief.jpg
     
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  11. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

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    Yep 2 good options. What I was saying is code requires closet rings installed at rough inspection. Whether inspector cares or not. If plumbers know its not getting inspected they wont screw flange down to concrete. I see it all the time on slabs.
     
  12. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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  13. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

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    Feb 27, 2020
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    92346
    screw flange on to plate if you like. then you'll be drilling the tile or cutting it out to screw plate down. many ways to do it . a lot of guys just glue them on and let the Dap hold toilet but that's sloppy inspector will never know or care
     
  14. djarchow

    djarchow Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2018
    Location:
    Iowa
    The hole is big enough to accommodate 4" outer diameter of the fitting and allow some movement side to side and front to back for positioning the plate where you subfloor is damaged. Here is a picture. It looks like the plate is a little over 7" wide. The Oatey link you posted is not their repair plate. That one is here: https://www.oatey.com/products/oatey-galvanized-wood-support-kit-1908739844?upc=038753435558&filter=

    Sioux_chief_plate.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2021
  15. djarchow

    djarchow Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2018
    Location:
    Iowa
    Here is the spacer the plumbers used when we built the house. Even looking at Oatey's site, I am not clear how this was supposed to work. Do you just screw your flange into the top of it after you cut a hole for the waste pipe? It is made from a somewhat flexible, plastic/vinyl so I am not sure how well that would support the flange. In my case, the top stuck out of the concrete about 2 inches and nowhere near plumb. So I just cut it off at the concrete leaving nothing to screw the flange to...hence this thread.

    https://www.oatey.com/products/harvey-plastic-closet-bend-spacers--13141201?upc=078864120059
     
  16. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    I was thinking the thing was steel.

    Looks like you have things working, unless that is not your photo. Come to think of it, I guess that is not your photo, since you probably are using pvc rather than abs.

    I was thinking you would drill holes, and use machine screws with nuts to combine the new flange with the new plate. Then apply pvc primer and cement, and push the whole thing down.

    For the non-split types I had been thinking of, those go atop the flange.

    There are outside 3-inch compression flanges that would avoid gluing, so that you would have easy do-overs if needed.
     
  17. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

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    Feb 27, 2020
    Location:
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    djarchow, Disregard my last post I too thought you had a steel plate. covered several ways hope one is easy for you and works well!
     
  18. djarchow

    djarchow Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2018
    Location:
    Iowa
    Actually I will be using the steel plate and having to drill holes in the porcelain tile . The photo above of the ABS flange and the plate was one I found online to show Reach4 the relative size of the plate compared to the flange. My pipes are ABS as well, not PVC. I briefly thought about just gluing the flange to the waste pipe and then bedding the flange in adhesive as this would be a lot easier but the engineer in me doesn't like doing it half way. Everything I have done in the basement so far has been to code. Not going to break that streak now.

    Thanks again!
     
  19. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    IL
    Ouch.
     
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