Toilet flange no longer has 12" from wall (following remodel)

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Bob3800, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. Bob3800

    Bob3800 New Member

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    Currently during a bathroom remodel. The wall behind the toilet was tiled, which resulted in the toilet flange being closer than 12" to the finished the wall. It appears I've now lost ~1"

    The toilet requires a 12" rough-in. Would an offset flange solve my problem? If so, what type is best suited for this purpose?

    Thanks!

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  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    There are toilets that can use your 11 inch rough in.

    There are good offset flanges that will offset maybe 1.5 inches if you are willing to go that far.

    There are options. What's your pleasure?
     
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  4. Bob3800

    Bob3800 New Member

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    Thanks! The toilet we have is Toto Ultramax II, I'm fairly confident it won't work in this application, and ideally I'd like to keep it. Which toilets are you aware of that will work here?

    1" seems like the ideal distance, but perhaps the extra half inch would negligible. I've heard it's best to avoid offset flanges, but it seems like it might be the only practical option if I wish to keep this toilet.

    I'm also wondering if the tile work might need to be disturbed. To me it seems like there should be enough clearance to accommodate a new flange.


    IMG_20190416_1619511.jpg
     
  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    If you were to change the flange, you would need to disturb the tile. The question is could you get the flange replaced without disturbing the part of the tile not covered by the toilet.
     
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    The way that flange is set now will cause problems. First off, an all-plastic one is asking for problems, it's not hard to crack the rim of it. Second, if it isn't anchored to the substrate, breaking or warping it will likely occur soon.

    There are at least a few designs of offset flanges. Those that look more like an offset funnel work fine. Those that have a shallow dish with the main hole offset, don't.

    You want a flange with a stainless steel ring on it so that it first, won't rust, and second, is much stronger than an all-plastic one.

    What's the surface underneath the tile? Is this on a slab, or is it a wooden subfloor with access from below?
     
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Set the toilet against the wall and then measure how far out the slots are.
    You can normally offset the closet bolts 3/8" of an inch off center and make it work.
    It looks like the current spec for an Ultramax II puts it 3/4" out on a 12" rough. Move the bolts out 3/8" and you even have some room there.
     
  8. Bob3800

    Bob3800 New Member

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    Thanks for the tips everyone! @Terry if I can make that work it would be great.

    The subfloor is concrete slab. I could always add cement to support the flange. In hindsight maybe I should've considered removing the flange before the retile. Someone advised me that on remodel this approach is normal...

    The original flange was installed by a contractor, given the option I always opt for the higher quality route, so appreciate your feedback re: stainless
     
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    How far does the pipe the flange is on go down straight before turning?
     
  10. Bob3800

    Bob3800 New Member

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    Plenty. I'm not on site to measure exactly, but it must be at least 15", as this was a slab which was raised quite a bit during a garage conversion .
     
  11. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    This is good. You could insert a Pushtite flange, or you could dig down, cut the pipe, and glue a new pipe in place.

    That would be a good option if what you have fails for some reason.

    Is the toilet centerline on an optimum place? If not, a 1.5 offset flange would let you set the toilet both an inch away from the wall and and an inch to the right at the same time.

    If you extended a 3 inch pipe after cutting and digging, the Jones Stephens C40320 cast iron 3 inch compression flange looks interesting. It may be easier than a glued flange for the less-practiced. It could be replaced, although I don't see it needing to be replaced ever. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  12. Bob3800

    Bob3800 New Member

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    Just got back on this project. I had a professional plumber assess the situation. It was determined that the original flange was sitting too high anyway, so it was removed. After setting in a flange that went on the outside of the 4" sewer line, we still weren't able to buy enough space to prevent the back of the tank from touching the wall (we're dealing with fractions at this point).

    Although I've already invested in the Toto Ultramax II, begrudgingly I think getting the Toto Drake with 10" rough-in is the wisest approach, as it eliminates both the risk and cost factors involved with cutting the tile, digging, and then attaching the offset flange's stainless steel ring to the tile surface (which I fear may cause the tile to crack). Not to mention how based on how the current tile is cut, the ring won't be able to sit on tile on all sides, so might not be rigid enough without adding support below - although I'm not sure this is a problem.

    Question: how far off the wall should I anticipate the 10" rough-in model to sit, considering I'm at 11"? A little concerned, as I read a review where someone managed to fit this model in when they had a 9" rough-in.

    Edit: another decent 10" option might be the Kohler Highline Classic. If it will sit closer to the wall, it might be worth considering.

    Thanks all for your help and assistance!
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  13. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    How close do you think you are to having the Toto Ultramax II fitting? Could this be satisfied by tilting the aft end up a bit with shims? Are you using 1/4 inch closet bolts or 5/16? The 1/4 gives you a tiny bit more wiggle room.
     
  14. Bob3800

    Bob3800 New Member

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    With the toilet sitting level the tank was touching the wall, it's not looking like a viable option, at least according the plumber who gave it a shot.

    My initial plan was to go with the offset flange, and to also move the toilet 1" to the side at the same time (something you mentioned above). But when I noticed the flange ring is designed to be screwed to the floor on all sides, I noted this wasn't possible, based on the size of the hole in the tile around the flange (see the top view picture in the first post). For what it's worth, the plumber didn't seem very familiar with offset flanges.

    Honestly, not sure how to proceed. Despite paying a licensed plumber for several hours of labor, I don't feel we've made enough progress one way or the other.

    I would settle for the 10" rough-in, but I also don't want the toilet sitting 2-3" off the wall...
     
  15. Bob3800

    Bob3800 New Member

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    This seems like it's going to be an issue not matter the route I go, which is making lean towards the offset, because something is going to need to be modified anyway.

    After cutting away tile, can cement be added (flush with the tile) to ensure the flange is properly supported?
     
  16. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    There are "12 inch" toilets that will fit your 11 inch rough-in flange.

    There are cast iron compression flanges that will offset 1 inch, but those are only for 4 inch pipe. as far as I could find.
     
  17. Bob3800

    Bob3800 New Member

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    Wow, that compression fitting idea might work! The sewer pipe is 4", but after the plumber removed the flange it's below the tile level (at its lowest point it's 3/4" below the surface), so I'm not sure if there's enough pipe to grip.



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  18. Bob3800

    Bob3800 New Member

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    What models are you familiar with? I noticed some skirted toilets come with an adapter. Maybe that's also an option?
     
  19. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: May 10, 2019
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  20. Bob3800

    Bob3800 New Member

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    Thanks for the flange info. That may be an excellent bet if I can get it to fit.

    That Toto thread is 10 years old. Toto currently have a Drake that's a 10" rough-in, but it looks like it only needs 9" and change, which might put it farther from the wall than I'd like.

    @Terry is there a Toto model today that takes 10-7/8". Personally like the one-piece look, but I don't feel I have the luxury to be too picky at this stage in the game.
     
  21. Bob3800

    Bob3800 New Member

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    @Reach4 I ordered the compression flange. After inspecting the area again, it seems like an excellent idea.

    Will post updates here. Thanks!
     
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