Toilet flange after tile install

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Kmr1964

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I was preparing my bathroom floor for tile when I ran into crumbled concrete around flange. I repaired the space underneath with thin set and floated the finish in the flange area . The space on one side of the flange is deeper than usual and I didn’t backfill it. Now, second guessing after installing the tile. I m looking for guidance on whether or not I could pour new mortar into void with flange in place. I’m concerned about damage to the tile and if it’s necessary. Would I have to anchor the flange all the way around? Guess I should add My assumption is the thin set wont hold and the flange is not anchored. Thanks IA.

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Reach4

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You will want suitable screws in the ring that screw into a solid thing below. They may be long screws.
 

wwhitney

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You will want suitable screws in the ring that screw into a solid thing below. They may be long screws.
Is the ring's job only to transmit tension?

I.e. the toilet sits on the tile (resisting downward force on the toilet), the closet bolts hold the toilet down to the ring (resisting upward force on the toilet), and the screws hold the ring down to the floor (resisting upwards force on the ring).

If the ring has to also resist downward force on it, then the screw locations also need solid support under the ring. I was going to say that was required, but now that I think about it, I'm not sure.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Reach4

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Is the ring's job only to transmit tension?
With regard to the toilet, I think so mostly. It also holds the plastic in position, but I think that requires less force.

Base pushes down to provide compression.
The caulk around the base helps hold the toilet in place against side movement, but the ring can contribute to that. That caulk becomes more important, because the front of the toilet is not held by the ring, and the toilet is only held at the aft portion.
 

John Gayewski

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The screws keep the flange from moving in any way. Up down side to side. the only force being held would be torque and linear. Pipe expands and contracts independently from the toilet. With the flange screwed in place the idea would be that even if the piping were to move the flange is fixed to prevent the wax seal from being broken.
 

wwhitney

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The screws keep the flange from moving in any way.
That would be true if the flange is well supported underneath by the substrate. I believe the OP's concern is that there are voids under a substantial amount of the flange. In which case screws will keep the flange from moving up or sideways, but not from moving down where there is a void. The attachment of the flange to the pipe would transfer any downward force onto the pipe, within limits.

Which seems like an issue, except are there ever actually any downward forces on the flange, when the toilet itself is well supported by the floor?

Cheers, Wayne
 

John Gayewski

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That would be true if the flange is well supported underneath by the substrate. I believe the OP's concern is that there are voids under a substantial amount of the flange. In which case screws will keep the flange from moving up or sideways, but not from moving down where there is a void. The attachment of the flange to the pipe would transfer any downward force onto the pipe, within limits.

Which seems like an issue, except are there ever actually any downward forces on the flange, when the toilet itself is well supported by the floor?

Cheers, Wayne
The only downward force would be the force exerted when the toilet is set and the wax is "crushed". Once it's formed there shouldn't be any downward force other than "surface tension" or "adhesion".

That said if you can get 4 of 6 screws firmly fastened I'd call it good.
 

Kmr1964

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Thanks for the input. I’ve decided to extrude high strength mortar ( after bonding agent) in any remaining voids, including drilling out the screw holes and filling them the same way, then getting a minimum of 4 screws drilled down. I wanted to do this right and realized I jacked it up by not removing the flange and completely re-doing it before I used thinset. I’m thinking this will be adequate. I saw no evidence of the flange being set before unless the plumber took them out. The tile and area around flange are level, the flange is out about 1/8” out across the top. Thanks again, and any tips or suggestions are appreciated.
 
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