Toilet drain / vent for new bathroom

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Hi Jadnashua,
they're called "Quickconnect" from Watts.
Here's the URL - http://www.wattsreg.com/pro/divisions/quickconnect/literature/literature_catalog.htm
Page 39 - type 3539 stop valve is what I had in mind.
My guess is that most plumbers would think this is goofy since you all
so easily work with copper. I just thought if I could limit the number of methods that I'll be using, e.g. no sweating copper at all; that would be simpler.
I guess it comes down to whether you trust these connectors although I've heard good things about them. Lowes sells them.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Sorry, page 9 above, not 39.
Here's a quicker url - http://www.wattsreg.com/pdf/PL-QuickFit.pdf
After looking at the catalog though, I see what I need is an "End Stop"
on page 8 which is what I was looking for in Lowes, but they didn't have it.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

I'd still prefer to just cap it off with a $0.30 cap. I suppose if you didn't have the tools, then it might be cost-effecitive to use one. Note, legs that are capped off with no water flow aren't the best idea...better to tear them out in my opinion.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Thanks for your opinion Jim.
I had planned on cutting the legs back to a stub at a convenient point.
I'm still not sure if I want to use these quickconnects, but they certainly
are tempting. Seems I have three choices:
1. Quickconnect fittings everywhere.
2. Use copper caps in certain places and the rest quickconnects
(requires the torch and copper working tools).
3. Standard pex crimp connections (requires the expensive tools)
and copper caps and connections to pex (requires the torch and copper
working tools).

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Pressure Test fittings - questions

Hi,
I'm at the point where I need to think about where all these test balloon fittings have to go and have a few questions. I've read some of the other threads and got some info there.
One question that was answered was whether I could put a balloon or some kind of cap on the vent on the roof. I believe from what I read; that's ok. (Any product recommendations for that?). I also gleaned that these balloons are kind of a pain to use. Looks like Terry recommends Clean-Seal Plugs. They're a bit pricy but they look safer and probably easier than just a glued plug or balloon. I realize I have to plug all the fixtures at the stubout. And, the toilet flange has a built in cap that I guess snaps off after the test.
My question is where I place plugs/ballons for the two drain pipes that connect to the main 3" drain running the length of the house. There is an existing 2" drain that serves the washer and what used to be the utility sink. It will now serve the washer, new utility sink (moved to garage nearby), shower and lavatory sink.
The new 3" drain that you've seen photos of earlier will serve the water closet and new laundry utility sink downstream a bit.
I know that I only need to test new connections, so I thought I would put a test T w/ clean-seal on the 2" drain prior to where it already connects to the main 3" running the length of the house. The thing I'm not sure about is where I'm allowed to put the Test T for the new 3" water closet drain pipe that will connect to the main 3" drain. The new 3" will connect using a 3x3 Y using the flexible metal clamps that Terry recommended. Can I install a Test T just prior to connecting the new 3" pipe to that Y and use a clean-seal plug there, or will I need to run a balloon into that T and run downstream a foot or so past the the new Y connection where the metal clamps are located?
btw; I don't know yet what tests they use here; I'm waiting for a call back on that.
I want to thank you all again for your valuable help getting me this far. I really appreciate it.

 

[Prashster]

Find out what yr inspector requires first b4 theorizing how /where to plug. My inspector skipped a full pressure test and just made me fill the system w/5ft head of water. I added a cleanout 6ft up one vent that served as the water fill point.

I didn't have to use any balloons. I was able to use the wingnut plugs in some places and cemented caps in other places. Make yr stubs long enough so you can cut the caps off.

As for the water supply, I was in yr boat and opted for copper. I looked at Sharkbite quick connects. In the end, there just wasn't enough history for me to feel confident w/ it. I'm not knocking it. But I will say TRY sweating copper b4 you poo-poo it. You can practice easily and it gets exponentially easier as you do a couple. And I gotta say: there are few feelings as satisfying as solder being pulled into a joint.

If yr really trying to save yourself effort (and considerable cost), I'd vote for a cpvc supply before the quick connectors. Using shortcut fittings with copper defeats the major benefit of copper over other supplies, IMHO.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Sounds like good advice...

Thanks Prashter,
Knowing the inspection method is a good idea. No sense in wasting
effort if not required.
Regarding stub length and caps; I thought those caps are to be just
knocked out after the test? Does that not work well?
I haven't made a decision about the quick-connects yet. Although I spoke with a co-worker's husband whom is a plumbing supply guy. He also recommened Sharkbite over quick-connects if I am going to go that route.
And, you really got me going on that solder being pulled into a joint experience. Having heard that, I would hate to go through life missing out on that !
Like you, I'm concerned about the lack of history for the push-on connect products. After all, once they're in the wall, they're in the wall. (I'm kind of like Plato sometimes).
Even if I convince myself that I'm comfortable with push-on connectors; if I sell the house, the buyer might not feel that way if the inspector points it out. So, still struggling with the decision, but leaning towards conventional pex crimp connects (expensive tools and all). And, not to forget about the creeping solder experience.
Thanks a bunch for your input !

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Heard back from the inspector

He said either a air pressure test or mostly they just do a water test
where maybe they fill up to the washing machine drain level.
So, sounds like this water fill test would be easier than an air pressure
test, correct ?
He said I could just put a ball in prior to the 3" connection to the main.
So, very good advice Prashter.

I know I don't have to put a ball in the roof vent now.
So, let's see if I've got this right now:
1. cap off all the fixtures.
2. Put a test T w/ clean-seal plugs on the 3" and 2" pipes just prior to their connection to the main 3" pipe.
and I should be good to go?
How do we drain the water once the test is done?
And, I noted in another thread some danger of flooding if a balloon or cap
pops off. Any recommendations or suggestions about this? Should I use
something more sturdy than glued caps?

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

ping...

Hi, do Clean-Seal plugs have a pressure release valve or something
that would allow water to drain after a water test ?

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Cherne - clean-seal

I read the pdf's on the Cherne site and these test plugs appear to
require their special hand-pump and pressure gauge (correct me if I'm wrong). I guess I'll have to rough it with the test balloons from the rental center. I would like to have used these though.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

fyi...

I contacted the manufacturer and they say that a standard
bicycle pump will suffice, but you still need a pressure gauge.
I asked if ok to use one of the pumps w/ attached gauge and they
said as long as you test that gauge with a standard gauge to be sure
it's accurate.
I think I will use these in this case.

 

[Prashster]

Man the plugs I used only had the wing nuts as pressure relief valves and were mounted perpendicular to the water flow - not inline like the cleanseals. I basically untwisted it a little at a time at the outlet until I started to hear a trickle. The trickle will grow as the plug is pushed out. This'llgive you time to get out da way before she blows!

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Well, I've got one of those to plug up the 2" shower drain; hope it holds.
I'm not as brave as you are though. That sounds way too exciting for me!

I did buy a torch and some copper plugs though. Actually I bought two torches or course, returned the first because I found it was not propane. It was that other gas that's really hot. I'll be dangerous enough with propane.
I think everybody has convinced me to do this job the more difficult but conventional way with pex and regular pex crimp fittings instead of the push on shark-bite or quickconnects. It was really appealing though to be able to avoid both torches and all that expensive crimping stuff. Oh well, I guess I'll be happy when it's done.
Thanks guys !

 

[pyrazole]

Watts quickconnect

I've had these Watts quickconnect run in my house for about 6 months, no problems, up to pressure 24/7...except for the first week or so (I admit, they didn't 'feel' right at first). I bought an old house which had holes about every 2 ft in the copper because the house was unoccupied over the winter and the realtor didn't drain the lines.

The BEST thing about these pex runs, is the lack of joints. I ran a manifold from the basement, one for hot, one for cold (red and blue pex, isn't that great?). Each supply has it's own line from the manifold, since pex is pretty cheap. So...only joints at the beginning and end of each run. If get a leak, the possibilities are limited.

Now, I'd say crimped pex is probably better, but if you're not into buying the tools, these quickconnects are a good alternative (at least for 6 months and counting). With the price of copper up where it is now, I estimated I saved about 25% on pex with quickconnects.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Sorry I missed your response back when Pyrazole.
I did end up using two quickconnects for the connections from the 3/4" hot and cold to pex. Otherwise, I bought a combination 1/2 and 3/4" pex crimping tool and used that for the rest of the connections. So far the quickconnects are fine. I figured that if they ever leak, they'll just leak on the dirt beneath the house. I wasn't brave enough to use them inside of finished walls, but maybe they will be fine.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Finished Bathroom

Thanks everybody for your help during the first-time
bathroom install. I attached a photo. It came out nice.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Regarding the chosen toilet - I do like it.

I think somewhere in this thread I asked whether anyone thought the Kohler Devonshire toilet was any good since it's the one I purchased for this new bathroom. I don't remember getting a response, but I did want to tell others how I feel about it.
The one I bought is the less expensive two-piece unit with elongated bowl. I guess they're maybe $225 to $250 or thereabouts. When I first flushed it, it seemed ok for a 1.6 gal unit. But, I took the tank top off and noted that it had a float attached to the chain that prevented it from using more than about 1/2 the water in the tank. I moved that float down to almost the bottom. I suppose I could have just removed it entirely.
In any case, after moving that float down, this toilet flushes extremely well. I mean, it flushes better than my other two, old-style, big-tank toilets.
I'm very pleased with this relatively inexpensive toilet and I think it looks pretty nice too, so I thought I'd pass that along.