Tightening Wire nuts /nut sizes

[Frenchie]

Verde, I'm honestly not trying to start anything with you. I didn't go tooladdict on ya, did I?

At the same time - if answering questions incorrectly, in a trade you aren't qualified in, isn't talking out your ass - what is it?

As for the rest - sorry if it comes off as condescending. Just trying to get across to you, how much liability risk you're exposing yourself to. But since it's only pissing you off, I'll stop. Cool?

 

[Verdeboy]

The bottom line is that these poor (and sometimes cheap) people who call me to do odd jobs would never call a professional plumber, electrician, or remodeler. If I don't do the work, they'll get their drunken relative or someone else way less experienced and qualified than me.

In a big city, I'm just a hack handyman. Here in the third world of SW NM, they love my work and the attention to detail I give it. And, as I mentioned before, I know my limitations and won't take on a job that I don't feel comfortable with.

As for being qualified to give advice: You don't need to be a math professor to teach someone how to add and subtract. I like to ask a lot of questions and I also like to respond to posts. Like anyone else, I'm not always right.

Regarding the wire nuts, we can go on and on all day. But you'll never convince me that hand-tightening them and putting on a bit of electrical tape is the wrong way to do it. Just like some plumbers like teflon tape and others prefer pipe dope, there's not always just one exact way to do something. When that happens, you might as well learn how to give the fascist salute.

As for the liability. Well, that's the chance you take when you're just trying to survive. When I was even poorer than I am now, I drove around for a time without any car insurance. You gotta do what you gotta do sometimes.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

If your wire nut needs tape to be safe, you've either overloaded it, used the wrong size, or your leads are too long. A correctly installed wire nut sized for the wires in use is all you need. If a wire pulls out, you haven't installed it properly. Tape adds nothing to the mixture except more pain when someone needs to go back in and fix it. If it is likley to get damp, there are special wire nuts filled with electrical grease and fingers to help hold it all in place; tape won't last as long or work anywhere near as well.

 

[Verdeboy]

If your wire nut needs tape to be safe, you've either overloaded it, used the wrong size, or your leads are too long. A correctly installed wire nut sized for the wires in use is all you need. If a wire pulls out, you haven't installed it properly.

If the wire nut is too small, the wires won't fit inside. If the wire nut is too large, the wires can pull out easily.

I just wanted to quote myself to make sure I wasn't going crazy.

Tape adds nothing to the mixture except more pain when someone needs to go back in and fix it.

I started using the tape after I witnessed an electrician using it. After that, I just got into the habit of using it. You're right, JAD, it is a pain to remove, so I think I'll stop using it.

If it is likley to get damp, there are special wire nuts filled with electrical grease and fingers to help hold it all in place; tape won't last as long or work anywhere near as well.

So, special wire nuts for those swampcooler pumps that need hard-wiring?

 

[Jadnashua]

Normally, there's a box to protect the wiring, so no, they aren't necessary there.

 

[Frenchie]

The bottom line is that these poor (and sometimes cheap) people who call me to do odd jobs would never call a professional plumber, electrician, or remodeler. If I don't do the work, they'll get their drunken relative or someone else way less experienced and qualified than me.

In a big city, I'm just a hack handyman. Here in the third world of SW NM, they love my work and the attention to detail I give it.

As for the liability. Well, that's the chance you take when you're just trying to survive. When I was even poorer than I am now, I drove around for a time without any car insurance. You gotta do what you gotta do sometimes.

I don't know if you remember, but the first time I posted a response to you, I said something along the lines of, "Not judging you, I understand sometimes you just have to put food on the table".

There's 3rd world in Brooklyn, trust me. We even have the death tolls to make it really authentic. I once re-did an apartments where the landlord was standing out front, selling crack, and paying me cash at the end of the day. Kid got shot on the street out front one afternoon. No joke.

The law doesn't seem very relevant, sometimes.

Except: one of his tenants sued him, got a lien on the house for 75k.

We live the most litigious society in the world. Cover your ass.

And, as I mentioned before, I know my limitations and won't take on a job that I don't feel comfortable with.

That's the key. And I'd like to leave it at that, but then you had to go and add:

you'll never convince me that hand-tightening them and putting on a bit of electrical tape is the wrong way to do it. Just like some plumbers like teflon tape and others prefer pipe dope, there's not always just one exact way to do something. When that happens, you might as well learn how to give the fascist salute.

The rules on electricity might seem fascistic, but electricity is dangerous stuff. A water leak isn't about to kill anyone; a electrical short can burn a house down. And this isn't like teflon vs pipe dope, at all. Loose electrical connections are dangerous. Just a fact. Deal with it.

...Please, at least tell me you pre-twist?

 

[Verdeboy]

Never have I stated that the little piece of electrical tape was meant to secure a "loose" wire nut connection. Pay attention to the following: The connection must be made properly using the correct method with the correct wire nut. Then if you want to add a piece of electrical tape--like I've seen "real" electricians do--just to make yourself feel better--go ahead. It will not hurt anything. And you will never ever convince me that it will.

BTW, you said you weren't an electrician, Frenchie. That means you aren't "qualified" to give your advice and opinions on this forum either.

But, go ahead, anyway. You know a lot, and people can benefit from that knowledge.

 

[Frenchie]

BTW, you said you weren't an electrician, Frenchie. That means you aren't "qualified" to give your advice and opinions on this forum either.

That'd why I prefaced my answer with:

I'm not sure about the details, so hopefully a real electrician will swing by. But as far as I know..."

and found a thread where they were posting & asked them to swing by here...



See? My ass is covered...

 

[Chris75]

30 posts on how to install a wire nut?

 

[SteveW]

30 posts on how to install a wire nut?

Precisely why this is such a good forum! Where else on the web will you find this kind of conversation?

Funny how something that we all tend to take for granted, like the 'proper' use of a wire nut, is actually not a trivial matter at all.

 

[Chris75]

Precisely why this is such a good forum! Where else on the web will you find this kind of conversation?

Funny how something that we all tend to take for granted, like the 'proper' use of a wire nut, is actually not a trivial matter at all.

Actually, the right way to install a wire nut would be to read the directions on the back of the package.... see, 1 post and done....

 

[Rancher]

Actually, the right way to install a wire nut would be to read the directions on the back of the package.... see, 1 post and done....

Se' Habla Espanol? I'm joining the MAJORITY, and I can't read english.

Rancher

 

[KD]

I agree with Caudwell --twist the stripped wires with wireman's pliers-go beyond the blurb printed on one manufacturer's wire nut box. I have read the box too. Just like the guys who make electrical DIY movies--they are not electricians!

 

[sbrn33]

Not that anyone cares but
I don't twist. It does not make any better connection and make troubleshooting a pain it the aas.
I hold the wires an 2" from the ends and twist the nut until they twist back to my fingers. Tight perfect and done 15 seconds.

 

[JWelectric]

Not that anyone cares but
I don't twist. It does not make any better connection and make troubleshooting a pain it the aas.
I hold the wires an 2" from the ends and twist the nut until they twist back to my fingers. Tight perfect and done 15 seconds.

You go big guy---------the only way to do it

 

[Seaneys]

Not that anyone cares but
I don't twist. It does not make any better connection and make troubleshooting a pain it the aas.
I hold the wires an 2" from the ends and twist the nut until they twist back to my fingers. Tight perfect and done 15 seconds.

I've been wondering about that... Do, do you end up with about 2" of twisted wire on the outside of the wire nut?

 

[Speedy Petey]

You go big guy---------the only way to do it

C'mon now guys. Let's not get carried away. Let's also not get into the same big pre-twisting thing.
That is ONE way to do it. Pre-twisting is the other.

I will say, sbrn33's method is the ONLY proper way to do it without pre-twisting.
The point is the twist the wires. Either ahead of time, or let the wire nut do it.
If you remove the wire nut the wires should look the same in BOTH cases. The point is to NOT leave the wires straight under the wire nut.

Problem is, VERY few "non-twisters" do it properly.

 

[Molo]

The back of the wire nut boxes are very confusing, with several numbers. How do you know what wires will fit?
Also, how do you know when the wirenut is tight enough? are you supposed to use a tool or just your hands?

TIA,
Molo

Could someone please address the wire-nut sizing aspect of the question. The boxes literally have 20-30 options. Some have dashes between numbers, some have slashes. Any ideas?

TIA,
Molo

 

[Verdeboy]

This is hilarious. After 40 posts, your original question is still not answered to your satisfaction.

As an unqualified Handyman, who has no business even lurking on this electrical forum, I'll stick with the answer I gave you 39 posts ago:

Choosing the correct wire nut depends on the number of wires and their gauges. If the wire nut is too small, the wires won't fit inside. If the wire nut is too large, the wires can pull out easily. Once you've done a few hundred of them, you get a "feel" for choosing the right one.

BTW, disregard that business about wrapping a bit of electrical tape on the opening of the wirenut. Let them think you're a Pro.

 

[Seaneys]

This is hilarious. After 40 posts, your original question is still not answered to your satisfaction.

As an unqualified Handyman, who has no business even lurking on this electrical forum, I'll stick with the answer I gave you 39 posts ago:

Choosing the correct wire nut depends on the number of wires and their gauges. If the wire nut is too small, the wires won't fit inside. If the wire nut is too large, the wires can pull out easily. Once you've done a few hundred of them, you get a "feel" for choosing the right one.

BTW, disregard that business about wrapping a bit of electrical tape on the opening of the wirenut. Let them think you're a pro.

That is a great point..

If the original poster can tell us what he is trying to connect, I'm sure we can talk him through it in the next 50 post.

Steve