This Is Crazy

[Danny Regalia]

I'm not a a fixer uper, but learn alot from Youtube and going to forums asking questions. I also have a haddy man that is about the same age as I am, and I learn from him as well. He's was in the business for taking homes and fixing them for them to be sold again. Great guy and family. So one day I woke up, wife was doing dishes (using water), I brushed my teeth (using water), and got all done. I live on six acres and I've had this place for about 10 years. I know that two years ago we replaced the well pump. So that evening around dinner I wanted to wash my hands, and no water. no pressure in the system. I looked and looked all over and no leaks as I've been down that road as well. I said mmmmm, so I took a trip up to the well house and looked at the pressure gauge, and it was flat line. The next day I when back up to the well (after talking to my friend) and checked the pressure in the tank, no pressure. So I pressurize the system, and turned the power on. The system pressurize, water came out of the fault that is next to the well. Then the pressure die again. So I when back to the tank and as I walked around, I noticed that the cap to the pressure switch was melted. So I stopped doing what I was doing, called my friend, he told me what to do. I got a new pressure switch and when I took off the top of the switch, the picture is what I saw. So, now I'm wondering why the breaker in the house didn't trip? |Can someone help me with this.
Thanks
Dan

 

[PlumbNuts]

I strongly recommend that you contact a licensed electrician, your breaker should have tripped!
The short in the pressure switch could could have been caused by a number of things; ants, water, improper installation. It is hard to tell now, the evidence is gone up in smoke. But the big issue is the breaker not tripping.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[LLigetfa]

Why the breaker did not trip is guess work since we don't have the facts. What amperage is the breaker? What gauge is the wire? What distance is the pressure switch from the panel? What voltage and how many conductors including ground?

Was there any lightning in the area? It is possible that there was a power surge or surges that carried current over the ground.

 

[Bannerman]

So I pressurize the system, and turned the power on.

As the power had been shut-off initially, how did that occur? Perhaps the switch you used for turning the power back-on, also provides over current protection, similar to a breaker?

 

[Danny Regalia]

Thanks guys. I think I'll find a elect person and have him check out the breaker.

 

[Reach4]

I got a new pressure switch and when I took off the top of the switch, the picture is what I saw. So, now I'm wondering why the breaker in the house didn't trip?

How many amps is the breaker that did not trip?

What sized is the smallest wire? Use your digital calipers. That factor is not so important, actually, since the problem did not occur in the the middle of the wire run, but instead happened at the pressure switch. So don't buy those digital calipers for this. Instead think of all of the future times you will want to measure something that is fairly small.

So the failure cause could be a terminal was not tight, and offered a medium-resistance connection. Current through resistance makes heat. It could have been that somebody stashed something wrapped in aluminum foil in that hiding place. Or a mouse included a bit of steel wire into a nest. I think it likely that a faulty breaker was not a contributor, but it could have been. I see no sign that your copper wire conductor melted.

 

[LLigetfa]

It could have been that somebody stashed something wrapped in aluminum foil in that hiding place.

Hmmm... is that where you hide your stash?

My guess is that spiders or insects made a nest in there.

 

[Danny Regalia]

How many amps is the breaker that did not trip?
I''m 98% sure the breaker is 40. It's a double breaker. Now that you made me think about it harder, when we were rewiring, the ground wire was lose. As if you may not know that SC is great for fire ants, but I don't think they are out during the winter time. If there were spiders or ants inside, they are no more. Has anyone seen anything like this?

 

[PlumbNuts]

How many amps is the breaker that did not trip?
I''m 98% sure the breaker is 40. It's a double breaker. Now that you made me think about it harder, when we were rewiring, the ground wire was lose. As if you may not know that SC is great for fire ants, but I don't think they are out during the winter time. If there were spiders or ants inside, they are no more. Has anyone seen anything like this?

Yes! And the fire ants look for nice warm places when it gets cold out.
Your well breaker should be 20 amps not 40; that may be your answer.

 

[LLigetfa]

Your well breaker should be 20 amps not 40; that may be your answer.

We don't have the whole story. The breaker might be feeding more than just the pump in the well house but then there should be a sub panel there.

You need to charge the ants/spiders a security deposit cuz they usually leave the place a mess when the go South for the Winter.

 

[PlumbNuts]

We don't have the whole story. The breaker might be feeding more than just the pump in the well house but then there should be a sub panel there.

You need to charge the ants/spiders a security deposit cuz they usually leave the place a mess when the go South for the Winter.

And with that I refer back to my original reply, "Call an electrician!"

 

[Valveman]

I have seen this many times. There was no air in the tank so the pump was rapid cycling. The contacts get burned and start arcing like a welder, making lots of heat. It isn't drawing high amperage to trip a breaker. Just the amperage the pump is drawing is arcing between the points making heat. It will get hot enough to melt the switch, and can even cause a fire. Replace the switch and check all the electrical for heat. Then stop the pump from cycling so it doesn't happen again.

 

[Danny Regalia]

Well I did check the breaker and it's wire to two 30 amp. But I'm sort of going with valveman. No air in the tank, so the pump was rapid cycling. Why? Because when I was trying to determine what the problem was, I check the air in the air tank and there wasn't any. Therefore, I would go with the cycling theory. This spring, I'm replacing the pressure tank, and some of the pumping that is up in the well house, and building a new well house.

 

[Reach4]

Well I did check the breaker and it's wire to two 30 amp. But I'm sort of going with valveman. No air in the tank, so the pump was rapid cycling. Why? Because when I was trying to determine what the problem was, I check the air in the air tank and there wasn't any. Therefore, I would go with the cycling theory. This spring, I'm replacing the pressure tank, and some of the pumping that is up in the well house, and building a new well house.

Remember to leave provision for the well hoist truck to lift the well pipe and pump.

Even with a failed pressure tank, you can get some temporary workaround by adding air while letting out some water to make space.

Overdo it, and you can get a blast of air in your pipes.

 

[Valveman]

Well I did check the breaker and it's wire to two 30 amp. But I'm sort of going with valveman. No air in the tank, so the pump was rapid cycling. Why? Because when I was trying to determine what the problem was, I check the air in the air tank and there wasn't any. Therefore, I would go with the cycling theory. This spring, I'm replacing the pressure tank, and some of the pumping that is up in the well house, and building a new well house.

If you are replacing the tank might as well upgrade to a constant pressure system using a Cycle Stop Valve. With the CSV you only need a 4.5 gallon size tank, which would make for a much smaller well house. The PK1A kit will fit in a 24X24X14 inch box or well cover.