They tell me I need to dig a new well!

[North Jersey]

Check out these guys: https://www.easternwater.com/hydraulic-fracturing.html

Here's a map of their service area: https://www.easternwater.com/service-area.html

I hope you never need their services!

 

[Four Ringer]

Check out these guys: https://www.easternwater.com/hydraulic-fracturing.html

Here's a map of their service area: https://www.easternwater.com/service-area.html

I hope you never need their services!

Thank you. And yes, I certainly hope to never need them!

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

For the past week, the well pump has been tripping the breaker. After only a few days of this, I monitored the behavior and here's what I gleaned.

-The pump won't build pressure past 35psi
-90' well. I believe the pump is a 3/4hp, could be a 1/2. 110V on a 15A circuit. It's exactly 4 years old
-Clamping shows a low draw when it starts. It stays at about 3-4A until it runs too long. Then it rises to close to 20A at which point the breaker pops. My meter is a small, cheapo HF one so it might not be very accurate
-40/60 pressure switch
-Bladder tank is low at about 30psi

I called the local well company that replaced my pump 4 years ago. They told me that the pump should be close to 12A under load, not low as it currently is. He then dropped something from a big pill bottle into the well and put his ear to the cap. I assume he was listening for the noise of it hitting the water.

If these symptoms are right, how can the pump not be bad?

Yes, the submersible pump could be the wrong pump. But right or wrong, it's broken, unless I am missing something. I am not a pro.

Four Ringer:
1. there a pitless adapter?
2. is the well casing 4.5 inch OD steel, or what?
3. Would you be entertaining replacing the pump yourself, or would you be finding a well service service? A non-digger might be more oriented to the pump than the possibility of digging a new well.
4. Is this well your daily water supply? To work around this for now, you would adjust the pressure switch down to 10/30 and drop the precharge air pressure.

 

[LLigetfa]

I would start bagging lunch and staying away from Starbucks to fill the piggybank for when that pump finally dies.

Pumping a large amount of water down the well can backwash sediment that restricts the well's recovery rate. I've had to do that on my well when fine sediment filled the casing below the pump and locked the pump rotor. The driller pumped around 1000 gallons down the casing to push the sediment back into the aquifer while some of the sediment washed up out the top of the casing.

 

[Reach4]

Four Ringer: does the pump produce much sediment?

Have you flushed your pressure tank to dump sediment?

Precharged Pressure tank flush:
1. Connect a hose to the sediment drain valve, and run that to where you plan to drain the water. I suggest filtering the output through a cloth if you suspect the sediment may include sand.
2. Turn off the pump.
3. Open the drain valve, and let it drain until the water stops. It would be possibly interesting to watch the first water that comes out.
4. Close the valve, and turn the pump back on, and let pressure build.
5. Repeat steps 2, 3 and 4 as needed.

 

[Four Ringer]

If these symptoms are right, how can the pump not be bad?

Yes, the submersible pump could be the wrong pump. But right or wrong, it's broken, unless I am missing something. I am not a pro.

Four Ringer:
1. there a pitless adapter?
2. is the well casing 4.5 inch OD steel, or what?
3. Would you be entertaining replacing the pump yourself, or would you be finding a well service service? A non-digger might be more oriented to the pump than the possibility of digging a new well.
4. Is this well your daily water supply? To work around this for now, you would adjust the pressure switch down to 10/30 and drop the precharge air pressure.

The pump draws more amperage when there's a load(sufficient water in the well). It seems that the pump is fine.

-There is a pitless adapter
-Casing is 6 inch plastic
-I'd just pay to do the pump if I needed it. They only charged about $1500 to do it 4 years ago. I do quite a bit around the house but I'd rather not mess with my water supply.
-Yes, it is my primary water source. I'm going to leave it as is since it's been fine ever since they pumped water down the well.

 

[Reach4]

So the bit about the pump not pumping to more than 35 psi was not quite accurate?

And the part about the system being fine now-- do you reach the cutoff pressure easily now?

If using 40/60 psi, set the air precharge to 38. Air precharge is always set with the water pressure zero.

 

[Four Ringer]

I would start bagging lunch and staying away from Starbucks to fill the piggybank for when that pump finally dies.

Pumping a large amount of water down the well can backwash sediment that restricts the well's recovery rate. I've had to do that on my well when fine sediment filled the casing below the pump and locked the pump rotor. The driller pumped around 1000 gallons down the casing to push the sediment back into the aquifer while some of the sediment washed up out the top of the casing.

I hear you. We're ok to replace the pump. No worries there. We could swing the well, but it is, in my opinion at this point, not going to be necessary.

I agree with the backwashing theory. It makes the most sense to me. Of course, the well company told me that's not how it works so I'm inclined to believe the exact opposite. I'm slapping together a well sounder so I can take monthly readings. This way I can at least document the condition and health if the well.

 

[Four Ringer]

Four Ringer: does the pump produce much sediment?

Have you flushed your pressure tank to dump sediment?

Precharged Pressure tank flush:
1. Connect a hose to the sediment drain valve, and run that to where you plan to drain the water. I suggest filtering the output through a cloth if you suspect the sediment may include sand.
2. Turn off the pump.
3. Open the drain valve, and let it drain until the water stops. It would be possibly interesting to watch the first water that comes out.
4. Close the valve, and turn the pump back on, and let pressure build.
5. Repeat steps 2, 3 and 4 as needed.

I don't see any sediment as I have an upflow acid neutralizer that acts as a defacto filter. I may try to do that tank flush since the bladder pressure is about 10psi too low.

 

[Four Ringer]

So the bit about the pump not pumping to more than 35 psi was not quite accurate?

And the part about the system being fine now-- do you reach the cutoff pressure easily now?

If using 40/60 psi, set the air precharge to 38. Air precharge is always set with the water pressure zero.

No, it was accurate. It was only pumping that low before they added water to the well. Now there's no issue except that the pump cuts in at around 30 psi because the bladder needs to be properly inflated.

 

[Bannerman]

pump cuts in at around 30 psi because the bladder needs to be properly inflated.

Assuming you intend the cut-in pressure to be 40 psi, then the pressure tank precharge is not the reason for it to cut-in at 30. Either the pressure switch cut-in setting is set to 30 psi, or your pressure gauge is not indicating correctly.

 

[Four Ringer]

Assuming you intend the cut-in pressure to be 40 psi, then the pressure tank precharge is not the reason for it to cut-in at 30. Either the pressure switch cut-in setting is set to 30 psi, or your pressure gauge is not indicating correctly.

So if I adjust the pressure switch, the bladder has no impact on that? I tested the pressure on the tank with a gauge and it reads the same as the gauge at the tee. Would that be an accurate reading?

 

[Bannerman]

if I adjust the pressure switch, the bladder has no impact on that?

The usual recommended air pre-charge pressure is 2 psi lower than the pressure switch cut-in pressure. The 2 psi difference will cause a small amount of water to continue to remain within the pressure tank when the pump is activated. That remaining water quantity helps to ensure flow to faucets is continuous, even if there is a brief hestitation in water delivery from the pump.

If there is a greater difference in air pre-charge such as 30 psi pre-charge vs 40 psi cut-in, then a larger quantity of water will always remain within the pressure tank, and the tank's flexible diaghram/bladder would be flexed (stretched) further to compensate for the lower air pre-charge pressure.

 

[Bannerman]

I tested the pressure on the tank with a gauge and it reads the same as the gauge at the tee. Would that be an accurate reading?

Not the correct way to measure pressure tank pre-charge, but does verify both gauges are indicating equally.

To measure the pre-charge pressure, shut off power to the pump and open the valve at the tank T to drain all water pressure from the system. When no further water is exiting from the drain valve, verify the tank is completely empty of water.

If any water remains present in the tank, use an air compressor to add short blasts into the tank's Schrader valve to determine if any additional water or air exits the drain valve. If so, it's likely the diaphragm has ruptured and the tank may need to be replaced.

If the tank is completely empty, use a tire pressure gauge on the tank's Schrader valve to measure the tank's air pre-charge pressure.

 

[Reach4]

No, it was accurate. It was only pumping that low before they added water to the well. Now there's no issue except that the pump cuts in at around 30 psi because the bladder needs to be properly inflated.

Under-inflation will not cause a 40-60 pressure switch to turn on at 30. Your pressure switch may have been turned down. 3.5 turns clockwise on the nut on the big spring should raise both cut-in and cut-out about 10 psi.

You could also check your pressure gauge. Make sure it says zero when the pressure is zero.

If the water pressure is higher than the air precharge, the air pressure will read about the same as the water pressure. That is useful in comparing calibration on the air pressure gauge vs water pressure gauge.

 

[Four Ringer]

The usual recommended air pre-charge pressure is 2 psi lower than the pressure switch cut-in pressure. The 2 psi difference will cause a small amount of water to continue to remain within the pressure tank when the pump is activated. That remaining water quantity helps to ensure flow to faucets is continuous, even if there is a brief hestitation in water delivery from the pump.

If there is a greater difference in air pre-charge such as 30 psi pre-charge vs 40 psi cut-in, then a larger quantity of water will always remain within the pressure tank, and the tank's flexible diaghram/bladder would be flexed (stretched) further to compensate for the lower air pre-charge pressure.

Got it. I never fully understood what the purpose of the bladder tank was.

 

[Four Ringer]

Not the correct way to measure pressure tank pre-charge, but does verify both gauges are indicating equally.

To measure the pre-charge pressure, shut off power to the pump and open the valve at the tank T to drain all water pressure from the system. When no further water is exiting from the drain valve, verify the tank is completely empty of water.

If any water remains present in the tank, use an air compressor to add short blasts into the tank's Schrader valve to determine if any additional water or air exits the drain valve. If so, it's likely the diaphragm has ruptured and the tank may need to be replaced.

If the tank is completely empty, use a tire pressure gauge on the tank's Schrader valve to measure the tank's air pre-charge pressure.

I knew that you couldn't read precharge that way but I was hoping that it would verify overall pressure, so that's good to know. I'll be resetting the precharge in the near future. The well people said that it wasn't a big deal that it was 10psi too low, so now I'm thinking I should do it sooner rather than later.

 

[Four Ringer]

Under-inflation will not cause a 40-60 pressure switch to turn on at 30. Your pressure switch may have been turned down. 3.5 turns clockwise on the nut on the big spring should raise both cut-in and cut-out about 10 psi.

You could also check your pressure gauge. Make sure it says zero when the pressure is zero.

If the water pressure is higher than the air precharge, the air pressure will read about the same as the water pressure. That is useful in comparing calibration on the air pressure gauge vs water pressure gauge.

Thanks. Yeah, I have no idea how cut in got so low. I initially set it all up a few years back when I replaced the tank and tee. It was accurately turning on at 40 and off at 60 then. Wierd.

 

[LLigetfa]

I have no idea how cut in got so low. I initially set it all up a few years back when I replaced the tank and tee. It was accurately turning on at 40 and off at 60 then. Wierd.

If the cut-in drops on its own over time, then most likely there is mineral buildup under the switch's diaphragm. You can try cleaning it but sometimes the diaphragm disintegrates when you try.

 

[Four Ringer]

If the cut-in drops on its own over time, then most likely there is mineral buildup under the switch's diaphragm. You can try cleaning it but sometimes the diaphragm disintegrates when you try.

Good to know. I may just replace the switch and the gauge. I already have the parts for the well setup I have in my cabin that needs replacing.