Test results...Now what?

[Michael P Reilly]

I apologize, I know you probably get hundreds of these...but rather than trying to tag along on someone else's post I will post yet another...

I have a 50's home with almost completely replaced piping. It is about 90% CPVC now with a 50 gal Rheem water heater tank. There is a small kitchen, two bathrooms and 4 adult occupants. We are getting hard water stains on our fixtures. I wish to mainly get rid of these deposits. I would prefer to not go with a salt system if possible but will fold on that if there is no other effective courses of action.

I have recently been looking at the reviews on Watts Premier OFPSY and iSpring ED2000. I know they are not softners per se but if conditioners can do what I need then I would like the reduced maintenance.
If any other info is needed please ask.

Got my test results today...It was the NTL Lite version.
Anything not listed here was under minimums.

City Water...
Calcium 92 mg/L
Lithium 0.011 mg/L
Magnesium 34.28 mg/L
Potassium 2.3 mg/L
Silica 24.5 mg/L
Sodium 41 mg/L
Strontium 3.334 mg/L
Zink 0.008 mg/L

Alkalinity 160 mg/L
Hardness 370 mg/L
pH 7.7
Total Dissolved Solids 520

Chloride 110 mg/L
Fluoride 0.6 mg/L
Sulfate 120 mg/L

 

[Bannerman]

Non salt systems are not water softeners as they do not remove hardness minerals, but are only intended to keep the minerals in suspension so they won't accumulate on the inside of pipes. Once the water is outside the plumbing system, water accumulating on the outside of plumbing fixtures will evaporate, thereby leaving the hardness minerals to dry as residue on the fixtures.

At 370 mg/L hardness, your water contains 21.6 grains per gallon hardness which is substantial.

A water softener functions by removing hardness mineral ions, most commonly calcium and magnesium, by exchanging them with sodium ions. The amount of sodium added as a result of softening will be directly proportional to the amount of hardness minerals removed. The resulting additional sodium is usually fairly insignificant when compared to other sources of sodium which are often consumed on a daily basis, but if sodium in drinking water is a concern, you may wish to consider a small undercounter Reverse Osmosis system to supply all water for consumption. An RO will not only be effective to remove sodium including the 41 mg/L in the raw water, but almost all other contaminants including those that may not be indicated on your lab test report.
https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/8-9

The brief writeup at the link below, explains the amount of added sodium, and also provides comparisons to sodium contained in common foods.
https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/154

Other than periodically adding salt (1-3x per year typical, depending on brine tank capacity) and cleaning and sanitizing the brine tank every few years, there is usually little other maintenance required for most appropriately sized quality softener units.

Salt use efficiency is determined by the salt and capacity settings that are programmed initially. The most common recommendation to acheive the best balance of salt efficiency, usable capacity and soft water quality is 8 lbs salt to regenerate 24,000 grains usable capacity per cubic foot of softening resin.

With 4 ppl assumed to utilize 60 gallons per day average X 24 grains per gallon hardness (rounded up with additional 2 GPG added to anticipate hardness varience from the city supply), this totals 5,760 grains per day estimated hardness load. Your water consumption maybe higher and so the calculation may need to be revised.

A softener containing 2 ft3 resin (commonly sold as 64,000 grains total capacity) will provide 48,000 grains usable capacity when regenerated with 16 lbs salt.

48,000 / 5760 = 8.333 days capacity to be regenerated - 1 day reserve capacity = estimated regeneration frequency of 7-8 days.

As the usual regeneration frequency recommendation for city water is maximum 1 regeneration per week to as few as 1 regeneration per month, a softener containing 2 ft3 resin would be the minimum size recommended for your current requirements.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Michael P Reilly]

At 370 mg/L hardness, your water contains 21.6 grains per gallon hardness which is substantial.

Salt use efficiency is determined by the salt and capacity settings that are programmed initially. The most common recommendation to acheive the best balance of salt efficiency, usable capacity and soft water quality is 8 lbs salt to regenerate 24,000 grains usable capacity per cubic foot of softening resin.

With 4 ppl assumed to utilize 60 gallons per day average X 24 grains per gallon hardness (rounded up with additional 2 GPG added to anticipate hardness varience from the city supply), this totals 5,760 grains per day estimated hardness load. Your water consumption maybe higher and so the calculation may need to be revised.

A softener containing 2 ft3 resin (commonly sold as 64,000 grains total capacity) will provide 48,000 grains usable capacity when regenerated with 16 lbs salt.

48,000 / 5760 = 8.333 days capacity to be regenerated - 1 day reserve capacity = estimated regeneration frequency of 7-8 days.

As the usual regeneration frequency recommendation for city water is maximum 1 regeneration per week to as few as 1 regeneration per month, a softener containing 2 ft3 resin would be the minimum size recommended for your current requirements.

Thank you very much for the detailed response. I have been looking into your suggestions and wanted to get more educated on the subject before responding.

My utility bill for the last year indicates that our usage is pretty consistently 135 gallons a month...X 24 GPG (as you suggest) gives me 3,240 (lets call it 3,250 cause I like round numbers lol)...3,250 Grains per day load.

I am looking at the Fleck 5600 SXT (seems to be well regarded in this forum) but your next statement about cubic feet of Resin has me a bit confused. The "Specs" below do not really indicate cubic ft and there is also an 8% vs 10% choice when selecting the unit.

Might you please also explain the capacity vs "useable" capacity briefly? The chart below is indicating a 40k Grain for our setup but does not include the variable for usage. The salt usage also seems much different than what you stated but I am sure it is a misunderstanding on my part.

 

[Bannerman]

When 100% of the resin's capacity is utilized and is to be regenerated, the amount of salt required will be excessive and extremely inefficient.

For example, a softener containing 1 ft3 resin will have a total softening capacity of 32,000 grains, but to regenerate that capacity, 20 lbs salt will be required each regeneration cycle. To determine efficiency, 32,000 gr / 20 lbs = 1,600 grains per lb Hardness Reduction Efficiency.

When the unit is programmed to regenerate when a lessor amount of capacity has been consumed (usable capacity), the quantity of salt required will be less, but the salt reduction will be a much greater percentage compared to the capacity reduction.

Continuing with the same example, that same 1 ft3 softener when programmed to regenerate when 24,000 grains has been consumed, will require only 8 lbs salt for regeneration. 24,000 gr / 8 lbs = 3,000 gr/lb,

That same 1 ft3 unit when programmed to regenerate when 21,000 gr has been consumed, will require only 6 lbs salt. 21,000 / 6 = 3,500 gr/lb.

As salt efficiency is increased, the unit will require more frequent regeneration, thereby utilizing a greater amount of water for regeneration per month or per year. A further tradeoff will be, when less salt is utilized each cycle, the quality of the soft water will suffer as there will be a greater amount of hardness leakage passing through the resin.

To obtain the best balance of efficiency, usable capacity and water quality, I recommended an 8 lb/ft3 salt setting.

Anticipating your water usage was higher, 2 ft3 of resin was recommended to satisfy your estimated weekly softening load before requiring regeneration.

Using your revised water consumption amount.

A softener containing 1.5 ft3 resin (48,000 gr total capacity) will provide 36,000 gr usable capacity when regenerated with 12 lbs salt.

36,000 / 3250 (your estimated softening load) = 11 days estimated capacity - 1-day reserve = 10-11 days estimated regeneration frequency.

Comparing the initially recommended 2 ft3 unit (64,000 gr total capacity) to provide 48,000 gr usable capacity while using 16 lbs salt.

48,000 / 3250 = 14.8 days estimated capacity - 1 day reserve = 13-14 days estimated regeneration frequency.

As the usual recommendation for municipal water is to obtain sufficient capacity to not require regeneration more frequently that 1X per week to as few as 1X per month, either size unit will be appropriate for your application.

Resin with 10% cross linking will be more expensive than standard resin with 8% cross linking, but the 10% will better tolerate constant chlorine exposure present within municipality sourced water.

Comparison chart of regenerated capacity vs salt dosage requirements. Salt dosage columns are indicated in lbs/ft3. Efficiency and hardness leakage information is stated at the bottom of each salt dosage column.

 

[Reach4]

My utility bill for the last year indicates that our usage is pretty consistently 135 gallons a month

That is incredibly low. People usually plan on 60 gallons/day/person, and low-use would be maybe half that.

So whatever you are using 135 of per months, I am pretty sure it is not gallons. 135 cubic ft would be about 1o1o gallons, which would be around 33.7 gallons per day.

"Let it mellow" is not a good idea for your plumbing.

Maybe it is 135 x 100 gallons, in which case I would note that you don't soften irrigation water.

 

[Michael P Reilly]

When 100% of the resin's capacity is utilized and is to be regenerated, the amount of salt required will be excessive and extremely inefficient.

For example, a softener containing 1 ft3 resin will have a total softening capacity of 32,000 grains, but to regenerate that capacity, 20 lbs salt will be required each regeneration cycle. To determine efficiency, 32,000 gr / 20 lbs = 1,600 grains per lb Hardness Reduction Efficiency.

When the unit is programmed to regenerate when a lessor amount of capacity has been consumed (usable capacity), the quantity of salt required will be less, but the salt reduction will be a much greater percentage compared to the capacity reduction.

Continuing with the same example, that same 1 ft3 softener when programmed to regenerate when 24,000 grains has been consumed, will require only 8 lbs salt for regeneration. 24,000 gr / 8 lbs = 3,000 gr/lb,

That same 1 ft3 unit when programmed to regenerate when 21,000 gr has been consumed, will require only 6 lbs salt. 21,000 / 6 = 3,500 gr/lb.

As salt efficiency is increased, the unit will require more frequent regeneration, thereby utilizing a greater amount of water for regeneration per month or per year. A further tradeoff will be, when less salt is utilized each cycle, the quality of the soft water will suffer as there will be a greater amount of hardness leakage passing through the resin.

To obtain the best balance of efficiency, usable capacity and water quality, I recommended an 8 lb/ft3 salt setting.

Anticipating your water usage was higher, 2 ft3 of resin was recommended to satisfy your estimated weekly softening load before requiring regeneration.

Using your revised water consumption amount.

A softener containing 1.5 ft3 resin (48,000 gr total capacity) will provide 36,000 gr usable capacity when regenerated with 12 lbs salt.

36,000 / 3250 (your estimated softening load) = 11 days estimated capacity - 1-day reserve = 10-11 days estimated regeneration frequency.

Comparing the initially recommended 2 ft3 unit (64,000 gr total capacity) to provide 48,000 gr usable capacity while using 16 lbs salt.

48,000 / 3250 = 14.8 days estimated capacity - 1 day reserve = 13-14 days estimated regeneration frequency.

As the usual recommendation for municipal water is to obtain sufficient capacity to not require regeneration more frequently that 1X per week to as few as 1X per month, either size unit will be appropriate for your application.

Resin with 10% cross linking will be more expensive than standard resin with 8% cross linking, but the 10% will better tolerate constant chlorine exposure present within municipality sourced water.

Comparison chart of regenerated capacity vs salt dosage requirements. Salt dosage columns are indicated in lbs/ft3. Efficiency and hardness leakage information is stated at the bottom of each salt dosage column.

Wow that is a lot of math...my head hurts. I really appreciate the in depth explanations.
So I am looking at either a 1.5 or a 2 cubic foot unit.
How does the salt work in these things? The old Rainsoft thing I had a couple decades ago held 4 large bricks of salt that needed replacing but I don't remember how often. I didn't see how much these new ones can hold or if it is still bricks or do they do bags? At roughly 15 lbs a week am I buying a bag a week or how does this work I guess is what I am asking.

 

[Michael P Reilly]

That is incredibly low. People usually plan on 60 gallons/day/person, and low-use would be maybe half that.

So whatever you are using 135 of per months, I am pretty sure it is not gallons. 135 cubic ft would be about 1o1o gallons, which would be around 33.7 gallons per day.

"Let it mellow" is not a good idea for your plumbing.

Maybe it is 135 x 100 gallons, in which case I would note that you don't soften irrigation water.

Oh my, sorry sorry, I meant per day. It is right at 4000 a month avg.
@Bannerman had estimated 60 per person per day so 240 a day
I did the math right but wrote it down wrong...135 per day (~32 per person)

What do you mean by "let it mellow"?

 

[Bannerman]

Water softener salt is typically supplied in pellet or loose crystal form, and is sold in 40 lb bags.

The brine tank maybe filled to the top with dry salt. Usually at the end of each regeneration cycle, a specific quantity of water will flow into the brine tank so as to dissolve the specific quantity of salt to create the brine needed for the next subsequent regeneration cycle. Once the salt level becomes lower so that liquid is present above the top of the remaining salt, then it is recommended to top-up with additional salt.

The maximum salt saturation for water is 3 lbs/gallon so for the 1.5 ft3 unit, the 12 lbs needed to regen 36K grains capacity will result in 4 gallons entering the brine tank, or 5.3 gallons for 16 lbs for 48K grains in the 2 ft3 unit.

 

[Reach4]

What do you mean by "let it mellow"?

From

If it's brown, flush it down.
If it's yellow, let it mellow.​

People should not do that under normal circumstances.

I think a 1.5 cuft softener "48000 grain" with a 10x54 inch tank would quite sufficient for 137 gallons per day, but certainly 2 cuft with a 12x52 inch tank would be appropriate too. You need 10% crosslinked resin.