System 2000 leaks

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vincenzo

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Much to my surprise my two and a half year old system 2000 boiler has a couple of leaks. One is coming from the overflow valve at the top of the hot water tank, and the other is coming from a part that sits on top of the boiler. I took it's lettering down, it is called a " WATTS BACKFLOW PREVENTER 1/2'' 9D-M3 with intermediate Atmos. vent". My boiler tech replaced the overflow valve and then he put a plug on the Backflow Preventer that did not have a plug to begin with, some other kind of nut. The Backflow Preventer is still leaking, however. My tech guy say's I need to have a expansion tank put in, is this correct. These 2 parts should be covered under warranty. Any thoughts.
 

NY_Rob

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Can you take/post some photos of the boiler and the piping & devices near the boiler?

I can't imagine you do not already have an expansion tank in your system, that's why photos would be helpful.
 

Dana

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You absolutely have to have an expansion tank on the system, properly pre-charged to the intended system pressure, and sized for the system volume. If the tank is too small, not properly pre-charged, or the internal diaphragm is shot the system pressure will have a huge spike whenever the boiler fires, tripping pressure relief valves, and sometimes causing leaks elsewhere.

Backflow preventers keep heating system water from flowing back into the potable water supplies during pressure overload events. Do NOT plug the vent output- they are designed as the "Hail Mary" pressure relief to keep your boiler from blowing up if/when other pressure relief devices have failed. Installing a down-tube to direct the scalding hot output to a safe location such as a floor drain or sump pit is sometimes called for, but the end has to be open to boiler-room air pressure for it to work properly.

Yours probably looks like this one (?):

098268489125.jpg
 

vincenzo

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Hi Guy's, I took some photos. The system does have an expansion tank, I don't know why my oil company told me I had to have one installed. They must of had me mixed up with somebody else. Rob,these are some pictures I took and you can see the valve that is leaking. Dana, you respond as usual for everybody, Thankyou. Can you tell if these 2 valves are covered under warranty.
 

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NY_Rob

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What is your system pressure when the boiler is off, what is the system pressure when it's running?

Can you post a photo of the "overflow valve at the top of the hot water tank"?
 

vincenzo

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Rob, yes I can post a picture of the overflow valve. Where would I get the readings for the system pressures.
 

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NY_Rob

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Hmmmm...

Both of the leaking items are directly connected to your domestic water supply.
Does your municipality have anti-siphon/backflow valves on your domestic supply where it enters the house?
If they do... you will need an expansion tank specifically designed for domestic water lines. You may be seeing very high water pressure on your domestic water line. You can purchase a simple $10 pressure gauge at Home Depot which connects to any garden hose faucet to track your domestic water pressure.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-4-in-Plastic-Water-Pressure-Test-Gauge-DP-IWTG/100175467
 
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NY_Rob

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The boiler system pressure is found on the dual gauge on the top of your boiler.

A ballpark setting for most homes is between 12-15PSI... it should not change by much (+/- a couple of PSI) whether the boiler is running or off.
 

vincenzo

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Rob, I don't know about the antisiphon/backflow valves but I will try and find out. I will test the water pressure here tommorow with the guage. I took a picture of the system pressure and it seems high. I would not know how to adjust myself. What do you think of these readings.
 

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NY_Rob

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^ Yeah, it's a little high especially considering the boiler is off and the water temp is 100F.

Try to look at it next time the boiler is on- it shouldn't rise more than 2PSI or so.
When the tech is there, have him drain some water out and adjust the boiler fill valve for 15PSI max.
This isn't related to the two leaking components, but it should be addressed anyway.

If your domestic water pressure turns out to be reasonable then you probably just have two bad parts.
 

Dana

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Most 1 & 2 story houses with the boiler in a basement don't need more than 12-13 psi. (13 psi is enough to lift water 30' above the gauge. Baseboards on the second floor are typically only~ 25' above the boiler.) The standard pressure relief valves shipped with most new boilers open up a 30 psi, and with a cold/tepid boiler you're already above 20psi. When the boiler fires the pressure will increase, and if the expansion tank was pre-charged to 12-15psi it won't necessarily be able to accommodate the expansion of the water as it goes from 100F to 150F+.

Bleed the system water down to about 12 psi.

Tap both the plumbed side and the air valve side of the expansion tank. If it doesn't sound perceptibly different, the diaphragm is probably shot and it may need to be replaced. The air-valve side should have noticeable "ding" rather than a thud. If it thuds, use a screwdriver to push in the air valve a bit. If it hisses air it may just need to be properly charged. If it dribbles water it needs to be replaced.

The vent outflow of the backflow preventer is currently directed at an electrical device (an aquastat, perhaps?), which is an absolute gonzo-stupid way to install it, since if/when it drips it's dripping onto wiring creating a potential electrical hazard when wet. Installing a PLUG in the vent compounds the stupidity, since if the plumbing at that point doesn't relieve the pressure spike the pressure will be even higher, and something else will break first. The "right" way to resolve that would have been to install plumbing on that port directing the outflow down to the floor (at worst), or into a drain or sump (better). I'm not sure which idiot is worse- the first installer might have simply been absent minded or careless, but the one who installed the plug created a different type of danger. (Maybe they both should find some other line of work.)

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The backflow preventer might be just fine, assuming you have relatively high pressure on the potable plumbing in your house. If the pipes tend to rattle a bit when turning off a faucet rapidly, high pressure spikes will propagate throughout the system, possibly exceeding the 175psi opening pressure to the vent for a few milliseconds at a time. The solution would be to lower the house pressure with a pressure reducing valve at the meter, and/or to install a "water hammer arrester" in a few locations near rapid turn off taps (such as washing machines & dishwashers, which tend to turn off the water extremely rapidly.)
 
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