Switching from jet to submersible ?

[udoittwo]

Hello,
1st time here.
I said if I ever have to dig up my well again, I was switching to a submersible. My foot valve died so I dug it up. Replaced it all from the top of the well to the valve but then my old pump started acting up. So finally, I am going submersible. Looking at several diagrams of how to do all this, I collected all I THINK I need. My torque arrestor has no instructions so I found this forum but many suggest no arrestor. Most people here are talking wells of 200' or more. My pump will only be 60-65'. I will be using the new 1 1/4" poly tubing that I used for the jet. My new sub. pump is a 3/4 hp 4" in a 6" well.
A few questions.
1. I read that many or most went from the 1 1/4" outlet from the pump to 1" pipe. From the pump, I plan to use a 1 1/4" x 3" stainless nipple then a 1 1/4" stainless check valve and screw the sched. 80 hose connector into the check valve and then run 1 1/4" hose all the way into the house. Is there any reason to go to a smaller diameter?
2. Is the torque arrestor needed any more for a shallower depth or with poly tubing?
3. Seems like the most commom failure is do to wire abrasion? If I took the old 1" poly tubing from the jet pump and ran a length of it down the wiring cutting it in short lenghts and then using wire ties to hold it to the 1 1'4" tubing, would that protect it from rubbing through?
4. Any reason I can't run the wire into the house through the existing 1" tubing that I no longer need?
5. Somewhere I read that you should never use a union between the pump and the air tank and allways use gate valves. Is that right? Why would that be?
6. I plan to use 1/8" stainless safety cable to the pump. Its very flexible and holds 450 lbs. I read some don't even use it. I allready have it, is there any reason that I shouldn't use it?
Sorry for all the questions, I just would like to have a much info and suggestions before I start.
Being new to this forum, I want to see what is involved with posting a picture. Size ect. Don't have any plumbing related ones so hopefully, no one will mind if I try a pict of my car. Its the smallest pict I have and see how it fits.
Oh well, thanks for your time and any suggestions and HAVE A GREAT DAY!
Karl.

 

[Reach4]

A few comments based on things I have read. I have one well, and get it worked on professionally.

1. I am thinking that most pumps come with a check valve. You should not have a second check valve. What pump did you get?

5. That bit about never having a union sounds odd. Who said that? Regarding valves, you don't want a valve (or a filter) that could close the path between the pump and the pressure tank or pressure switch. The pressure switch and pressure tank should be very close to each other.

Gate valves were used in the past because they were full flow. That job is now mostly done better with ball valves. But the valves would be after the pressure switch and pressure tank. A "tank tee" is a connection manifold for connecting things at the pressure tank.

6. I think the objection to the safety cable is that it can fall down the well and jam things up. Connect the poly pipe to the barbed fittings with two or more worm clamps with the screws not on the same side. I did not find definitive torque recommendations. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/torque-needed-for-stainless-steel-clamps.33323/

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/hose-clamp-for-well-pump-other-s.23487/

On http://idealtridon.com/aftermarket/ they show Installation Torque: 35 in-lbs (4 Nm). That would probably be good for typical clamps that are not mil-spec. You can also see that some have plated carbon steel screws and some have stainless steel screws

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

Yeah the pump should have a check valve, but adding an extra one won't hurt as long as it is right at the pump. Torque arrestors are just a Bandaid for a pump system that cycles on and off too much. I have never needed a torque arrestor as long as you use a huge tank or a Cycle Stop Valve with a small tank. Torque arrestors, like the so called "safety cable" are just possible problems that you don't need. The torque arrestor can just get stuck in the well on its own, and the safety cable will lock the pump in the well if the cable fall in. Unions are OK anywhere except on the suction line of a jet pump.

 

[Craigpump]

#1 rule for safety rope.....if you feel you need safety rope or cable, you should use better pipe right from the start

 

[udoittwo]

Hello,
1st time here.
I said if I ever have to dig up my well again, I was switching to a submersible. My foot valve died so I dug it up. Replaced it all from the top of the well to the valve but then my old pump started acting up. So finally, I am going submersible. Looking at several diagrams of how to do all this, I collected all I THINK I need. My torque arrestor has no instructions so I found this forum but many suggest no arrestor. Most people here are talking wells of 200' or more. My pump will only be 60-65'. I will be using the new 1 1/4" poly tubing that I used for the jet. My new sub. pump is a 3/4 hp 4" in a 6" well.
A few questions.
1. I read that many or most went from the 1 1/4" outlet from the pump to 1" pipe. From the pump, I plan to use a 1 1/4" x 3" stainless nipple then a 1 1/4" stainless check valve and screw the sched. 80 hose connector into the check valve and then run 1 1/4" hose all the way into the house. Is there any reason to go to a smaller diameter?
2. Is the torque arrestor needed any more for a shallower depth or with poly tubing?
3. Seems like the most commom failure is do to wire abrasion? If I took the old 1" poly tubing from the jet pump and ran a length of it down the wiring cutting it in short lenghts and then using wire ties to hold it to the 1 1'4" tubing, would that protect it from rubbing through?
4. Any reason I can't run the wire into the house through the existing 1" tubing that I no longer need?
5. Somewhere I read that you should never use a union between the pump and the air tank and allways use gate valves. Is that right? Why would that be?
6. I plan to use 1/8" stainless safety cable to the pump. Its very flexible and holds 450 lbs. I read some don't even use it. I allready have it, is there any reason that I shouldn't use it?
Sorry for all the questions, I just would like to have a much info and suggestions before I start.
Being new to this forum, I want to see what is involved with posting a picture. Size ect. Don't have any plumbing related ones so hopefully, no one will mind if I try a pict of my car. Its the smallest pict I have and see how it fits.
Oh well, thanks for your time and any suggestions and HAVE A GREAT DAY!
Karl.

A few comments based on things I have read. I have one well, and get it worked on professionally.

1. I am thinking that most pumps come with a check valve. You should not have a second check valve. What pump did you get?

5. That bit about never having a union sounds odd. Who said that? Regarding valves, you don't want a valve (or a filter) that could close the path between the pump and the pressure tank or pressure switch. The pressure switch and pressure tank should be very close to each other.

Gate valves were used in the past because they were full flow. That job is now mostly done better with ball valves. But the valves would be after the pressure switch and pressure tank. A "tank tee" is a connection manifold for connecting things at the pressure tank.

6. I think the objection to the safety cable is that it can fall down the well and jam things up. Connect the poly pipe to the barbed fittings with two or more worm clamps with the screws not on the same side. I did not find definitive torque recommendations. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/torque-needed-for-stainless-steel-clamps.33323/

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/hose-clamp-for-well-pump-other-s.23487/

On http://idealtridon.com/aftermarket/ they show Installation Torque: 35 in-lbs (4 Nm). That would probably be good for typical clamps that are not mil-spec. You can also see that some have plated carbon steel screws and some have stainless steel screws

Being new here, I'm not really sure where this reply will be posted. It looks like it will end up at the end of another reply?
Oh well, see where it goes.
Anyway, my pump is a FLOTEC FP2211-12 As best I have found, FLOTEC makes a decent pump?
If the main concern about using a safety cable is that it might fall down and bind, I guess I'm not too worried in my case. Having a 6" well with the 4" pump and only being down 60', I doubt that this very flexable 1/8" wire could interfere too much if I dropped the whole 100' length down the well + I will have it attached to a stainless car hubcap that will not fit down the well. I just got the cable because that is what the diagrams shows.

Just curious, I probably have 200' or more of Polyproplene tubing. Is it recylable, if so, what o I do with it?
Why doesn't someone make a set of wheels that clamp on or are built into the pump that will allow the pump to roll down the well and roll back out[if needed]? They will only need to stick out a 1/10 of an inch and will also keep the pump from rubbing while in use?
Ph well, sorry that i tend to ramble.
Thanks again for all your advice.
Karl.

 

[Reach4]

Just curious, I probably have 200' or more of Polyproplene tubing. Is it recylable, if so, what o I do with it?

I suspect you may have polyethylene tubing. That is what is often used for wells. I have not seen people talk of using polypropylene tubing in wells. To get rid of the excess, try listing it on CL for a little cash, or free if nobody grabs it in a few weeks.

The wheels thing is not needed. If you want to read up on something that will keep the pump off of the walls of the well, search for flow inducer sleeve. That is mainly to improve cooling by having the water flow past the motor on the way to the inlet. Your idea of running the wires in a parallel section of tubing seems like overkill, but it would protect the wires. Most people just tape the wires to the tubing with 3M 33+ tape. I would try to tape the wires to the side of the tubing where the set in the tubing will tend to keep the wires away from the well wall.

I only know what I read. The others on the thread have considerable experience.

 

[Valveman]

3. Seems like the most commom failure is do to wire abrasion? If I took the old 1" poly tubing from the jet pump and ran a length of it down the wiring cutting it in short lenghts and then using wire ties to hold it to the 1 1'4" tubing, would that protect it from rubbing through?
4. Any reason I can't run the wire into the house through the existing 1" tubing that I no longer need?

If you run the wire through the old poly tubing down the well it will just give it many more chances of rubbing a hole in it. Just tape the wire every 10' or 20'.

But you can use the old poly going into the house as conduit for the wire no problem.

You would be surprised how big a rats nest 60' of cable can make if you drop it in the well. 4" pump with 6" casing and it can still lock the pump in the well. People make mistakes, cable clamps come loose, and Murphy's law always prevails.

 

[Craigpump]

Flotek pump, safety cable and an old hubcap, what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Ballvalve]

Flotek pump, safety cable and an old hubcap, what could possibly go wrong?

Flotek, okay - blowtech. 1/8" x 60' of ss cable. Not really a deal breaker., lots of that around here. probably won't bugger up the well if it fails. damn handy if the pipe fails. Hubcap? Interesting repurpose of a common device. Wheel rim or a disk brake rotor might be nicer.