Switched Power Outlets Problem

[Gogators]

My daughter just moved into a house that has two separate wall outlets located on each side of her couch that are connected to a light switch. It is obviously designed to be able to turn on/off two lamps each plugged into the top outlet of each wall outlet with the switch. Normally, the bottom plugs on each is always on, but in this case when you turn the switch on for the lights to come on, the bottom outlets both turn off. When you turn the switch off, the lamps go off and bottom outlets come on. This is driving her crazy because she has a powered recliner and her laptop plugged into the bottom plug on each outlet. This creates the following issue:

At night when she turns the switch on to turn on her lamps, she can't recline the couch and her laptop dies when the battery runs out.

I don't think this any type of wiring situation someone would do on purpose. What is going on here and is this an easy fix?

 

[Reach4]

I would look at one of the outlets under the outlet cover. Are there wires running to 3 terminals or two? Don't count ground if that has been run.

If only 2, I think there will be no alternative to keeping the outlets hot all of the time, and using a different way to turn the light on and off.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Gogators]

I would look at one of the outlets under the outlet cover. Are there wires running to 3 terminals or two? Don't count ground if that has been run.

If only 2, I think there will be no alternative to keeping the outlets hot all of the time, and using a different way to turn the light on and off.

I'm not sure. I will have to look when I go over again. If there are three wires, how would they be connected and what would be the fix?

 

[wwhitney]

If you are qualified to do so, you will need to open the switch box and the receptacle boxes to determine exactly how everything is wired. If you then post a diagram showing the details of all the wiring in each box (each cable entering the box, how each wire within each cable is connected), then a more definitive answer could be provided.

However, if there is definitely only one switch that controls these receptacles, then what it sounds like is that the switch is a standard 3-way switch. [If a regular toggle type switch, you can confirm this as the toggle will have no printing on it, versus the embossed ON and OFF lettering on a regular switch.] And that the wiring is as follows: constant hot comes to the common of the 3-way switch, two switched hots are connected to the other two terminals (call them red and black, the most likely colors), and the receptacles have their hot side tab broken, with red to the upper terminal and black to the lower terminal (or vice versa).

So if that's correct (no guarantee, just a deduction of an obvious possibility), what you'd to do is replace the 3-way switch with a regular switch to supply the red conductor, and connect the constant hot to the black conductor. Or vice versa color wise, depending on which color conductor goes to the top receptacle and whether it's important to you to maintain that the top one is switched, rather than the bottom one.

But if there's a second switch that also controls these receptacles, then there's a good chance that it will be impossible to maintain that functionality (with non-wireless switches) while also providing a constant hot to the receptacles.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

https://www.electrical101.com/split-receptacles.html explains what you wish you had.

Now was it that way originally, and some change caused it to not be that way?

Incidentally, the screw with the neutral white wire is usually silver-colored, and the two hots can be brass. If you only see one hot, there is no way, short of running new wires, that you can do what you want. This presumes that your wires are not run in conduit. If run in conduit, it would be possible, but not easy, to rewire.

 

[Gogators]

Thanks Guys for the replies. I will check this out when I go back over to her place.

 

[Reach4]

Take bright flashlight, Q-tip or other non-conductive tool, reading glasses.

If your cellphone is good at taking low-light photos, a photo may help see what is in there better than the eye.

 

[Gogators]

If you are qualified to do so, you will need to open the switch box and the receptacle boxes to determine exactly how everything is wired. If you then post a diagram showing the details of all the wiring in each box (each cable entering the box, how each wire within each cable is connected), then a more definitive answer could be provided.

However, if there is definitely only one switch that controls these receptacles, then what it sounds like is that the switch is a standard 3-way switch. [If a regular toggle type switch, you can confirm this as the toggle will have no printing on it, versus the embossed ON and OFF lettering on a regular switch.] And that the wiring is as follows: constant hot comes to the common of the 3-way switch, two switched hots are connected to the other two terminals (call them red and black, the most likely colors), and the receptacles have their hot side tab broken, with red to the upper terminal and black to the lower terminal (or vice versa).

So if that's correct (no guarantee, just a deduction of an obvious possibility), what you'd to do is replace the 3-way switch with a regular switch to supply the red conductor, and connect the constant hot to the black conductor. Or vice versa color wise, depending on which color conductor goes to the top receptacle and whether it's important to you to maintain that the top one is switched, rather than the bottom one.

But if there's a second switch that also controls these receptacles, then there's a good chance that it will be impossible to maintain that functionality (with non-wireless switches) while also providing a constant hot to the receptacles.

Cheers, Wayne

It is three way switch. My daughter sent me this picture of it. I had her turn on the switch so the lights work and throw every other switch one a time in her apartment and the lights stay on so it looks like they used a three way switch in a single pole application and wired it wrong.

 

[wwhitney]

It is three way switch. My daughter sent me this picture of it. I had her turn on the switch so the lights work and throw every other switch one a time in her apartment and the lights stay on so it looks like they used a three way switch in a single pole application and wired it wrong.

Not so much wrong as for an unusual result. Given the test you did with trying every other switch, if you have confidence in that result, then you could go straight to replacing the 3-way with a regular switch for one of the ungrounded conductors, and tying a constant hot to the other ungrounded conductor. If you're qualified to be working inside the box, and if you what you find when you open the switch box is as expected (red/black on the two non-common terminals of the 3-way switch, which exit the box in a 3 conductor (plus EGC) cable.)

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Gogators]

Not so much wrong as for an unusual result. Given the test you did with trying every other switch, if you have confidence in that result, then you could go straight to replacing the 3-way with a regular switch for one of the ungrounded conductors, and tying a constant hot to the other ungrounded conductor. If you're qualified to be working inside the box, and if you what you find when you open the switch box is as expected (red/black on the two non-common terminals of the 3-way switch, which exit the box in a 3 conductor (plus EGC) cable.)

Cheers, Wayne

Thank You so much for all your help!

 

[Jeff H Young]

a three way switch is used when a light is to be controlled by 2 switches on other side of room . an outlet is wired "half hot" when one side of an outlet is hot all the time and other side turns off and on from switch .
sounds like a communication problem , or its built wrong

 

[John Gayewski]

There's also a splitter option if your not confident working on electrical and I think your post implies this is a rental or isn't her house.

Just use a splitter on the top receptacle for the light and the couch.

 

[WorthFlorida]

Wayne is correct. Someone hacked in a three way switch which is OK if you only use two terminals. It seems that someone missed wired it. I changed the picture to show how it is probably wired.

 

[Fitter30]

Find which of the wires are hot then feed two switches. If its a single gang box they make two switches in a reciprocal style configuration. Or wire the bottom half hot.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Wayne is correct. Someone hacked in a three way switch which is OK if you only use two terminals. It seems that someone missed wired it. I changed the picture to show how it is probably wired.

View attachment 86193

no how would an allways hot going to bottom not be hot regardless of switch.
I think its wired wrong too but dont think its wired as shown

 

[wwhitney]

I'll stand by my guess, which is all it can be given the limited info available. Basically a 3 conductor cable running from the switch box to the first controlled receptacle. Then someone else wiring the switch box sees the 3 conductor cable (white, black, red) and says "that must be for a 3-way switch loop, I'll put in a 3-way switch." Vs. wiring black to always hot and then putting a normal switch in to supply red.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

Id either fix it or do what , john said the easy no fix fix . put a power strip or whatever in where lamp goes plug the easy chair in and put my feet up call it done LOL .

 

[Gogators]

Id either fix it or do what , john said the easy no fix fix . put a power strip or whatever in where lamp goes plug the easy chair in and put my feet up call it done LOL .

That has crossed our mind, lol.

 

[Gogators]

Wayne is correct. Someone hacked in a three way switch which is OK if you only use two terminals. It seems that someone missed wired it. I changed the picture to show how it is probably wired.

View attachment 86193

So if I understand this correct and if it is wired this way, instead of running Line directly to the switch and lower receptacle, they ran the line into the three way and then used the traveler output to the lower receptacle. If this is indeed what they did, then is it just as simple as connecting the wire that is on the runner to the post where line in is shown in the diagram before you changed it making the bottom recepticle always hot?

 

[wwhitney]

Basically yes. Procedure if you are qualifed:

1) Kill power to circuit at breaker. Confirm anything controlled by any switch in the box is now dead.
2) Open up switch box.
3) Confirm that the 3 way switch has a black wire to the common terminal, and black and red wires to the other two terminals, which wires are part of a single 3 conductor cable.
4) Remove both black wires from the 3 way switch, add a black pigtail, and wirenut those 3 together (or use a WAGO Lever Nut)
5) Connect the open end of the pigtail back to the common screw of the 3 way.
6) Close up the box, restore power, and see if the desired change has resulted. If not, further investigation and reporting is required.

Of course, the above might result in the bottom half of the receptacle being unswitched rather than the top half. And rather than add a new connection point (the wirenut or WAGO) and pigtail, if the black supply to the common of the 3-way itself comes from a connection point, it might (or might not) be more elegant to to just move the black non-common on the 3-way to that connection point. But the above procedure was simplest to spell out.

Cheers, Wayne