Sweating quarter turn supply stops

[DIYorBust]

Short question, how can I sweat quarter turn supply stops without overheating and damaging them when they are so small?

The full story: I want to replace some old leaky multi turn supply stops with quarter turns for a kitchen sink. They are sweated on and use hard supply lines to the faucet which is not supper easy to access behind the sink basin.

I was considering disconnecting the supply lines from the stops and unsweating them. Then sweating in the new quarter turns, thus hopefully avoiding the need to replace or deal with the hard copper lines assuming the ferrules come off without a problem.

Also I should add there is not much room to cut the pipe off and rework it, it might be possible but could end up turning a small job b into a much bigger one if things go south.

 

[Sylvan]

Use a heat sink on the valve . Wet rag for example



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[DIYorBust]

Ok well not cheap but it's cheaper than blowing through a bunch of valves. So would I just pack as much as I can onto the valve? If it works, won't it prevent the valve end from heating up enough for the solder to flow?

 

[LLigetfa]

I was considering disconnecting the supply lines from the stops and unsweating them. Then sweating in the new quarter turns, thus hopefully avoiding the need to replace or deal with the hard copper lines assuming the ferrules come off without a problem.

There appears to be a contradiction. Ferrules imply a compression fitting, not a sweat fitting.

If the old stop were compression, then replacing them with compression stops makes sense. There are tools to break the old ferrules off. Even if the old stops were sweated, the old solder can be removed so that compression fittings can be used. Just wipe off as much molten solder that you can with a dry cloth and then sand off what remains.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Why sweat on angle stops in the first place? If you have room to sweat on a valve, a compression stop would work in its place.

But if you have to, and you use a heat sink, then practice first on something sacrificial til you get the right balance of heat to solder and sink to avoid damage.

 

[John Gayewski]

Sweat valves are designed to be sweat on. Open the valve and sweat it on. Monitor the heat by touching it with the solder. Buy a solder with a lower flow temp ,I think bridget is one. The monitoring is the important part. Don't keep heating it if it's already hot enough. Just a plain wet rag behind the solder joint can help, but also get in the way. I've never tried a heat sink compound.

 

[LLigetfa]

Sweat valves are designed to be sweat on. Open the valve and sweat it on.

You are stating the obvious. Nobody suggested doing something different with a sweat valve. Opening the valve on old seat-and-washer valves was standard practice to reduce the heat the washer was exposed to. A ball valve seal always has contact regardless of it being open or closed.

BTW, removing an old sweat valve with a torch is a lot harder that sweating on the new one. It takes a lot more heat and muscle.

I recently replaced my dishwasher. The old one used a supply hose with garden hose thread at both ends. The new supply hose was 3/8 compression on each end. I had a seat-and-washer sillcock sweated on a stub that was too short to cut off and have enough stub left for the new 1/4 turn stop. It was easier to unsweat the stub back to the exposed Tee than to unsweat the valve from the stub. I then sweated in a new stub. The new 1/4 turn stop used compression on the 1/2 copper stub.

 

[John Gayewski]

You are stating the obvious. Nobody suggested doing something different with a sweat valve. Opening the valve on old seat-and-washer valves was standard practice to reduce the heat the washer was exposed to. A ball valve seal always has contact regardless of it being open or closed.

BTW, removing an old sweat valve with a torch is a lot harder that sweating on the new one. It takes a lot more heat and muscle.

I recently replaced my dishwasher. The old one used a supply hose with garden hose thread at both ends. The new supply hose was 3/8 compression on each end. I had a seat-and-washer sillcock sweated on a stub that was too short to cut off and have enough stub left for the new 1/4 turn stop. It was easier to unsweat the stub back to the exposed Tee than to unsweat the valve from the stub. I then sweated in a new stub. The new 1/4 turn stop used compression on the 1/2 copper stub.

Yeah the point is don't worry about ruining it with normal sweat procedures.

Unsweating doesn't take more heat. It's the same heat. If your using more heat to unsweat then your just overheating. People will tend to keep heating past the necessary point, while they work the old valve off.

 

[LLigetfa]

Unsweating doesn't take more heat. It's the same heat. If your using more heat to unsweat then your just overheating.

I beg to differ. When sweating it on, you just need enough heat for the solder to flow for less than a second. When unsweating, it takes longer than a second to wrestle it off and the tool you are grabbing the valve with acts as a heat sink drawing away the heat needed to keep the solder melted. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I've never been able to to remove a sweated on fitting as fast and effortlessly as I could sweat it on.

 

[John Gayewski]

I beg to differ. When sweating it on, you just need enough heat for the solder to flow for less than a second. When unsweating, it takes longer than a second to wrestle it off and the tool you are grabbing the valve with acts as a heat sink drawing away the heat needed to keep the solder melted. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I've never been able to to remove a sweated on fitting as fast and effortlessly as I could sweat it on.

Effortlessly and heat are different things. If your solder melts at 400 degrees, it melts at 400 degrees. If you grab it with channel locks the temp can (and will) go down, but that doesn't mean you then need to heat it (the valve) to 450. Just back to 400. The issue is heating it while you struggle. Your probably heating it above and beyond what's needed simply because your struggling. Its easy to do. I'm sure everyone who has had to unsweat something has done it. Really not a big deal since your scrapping whatever your unsweating anyway.

Ive actually found grabbing the valve first and heating until it twists is a good indicator of heat. Then twist while pulling. You just make sure that you're pulling on something stationary. A floppy pipe will increase the difficulty. Also pulling out square out is tricky... like tooth. A lot of times when you pull you'll actually be pulling with slight perpendicular force and kink yourself from pulling or off.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Toss in trash and use compression, sorry don't think I've ever used a sweat angle stop, maybe they use them on trailers but extremely rare in my area we just do things differently can't really say why? Maybe I just don't like standing on my head under a cabinet trying not to burn the place down soldering

 

[LLigetfa]

I just dont like standing on my head under a cabinet trying not to burn the place down soldering

When I sweated on the sillcock 25 years ago, it was before the counter top and sink were installed. Had I the foresight that I would be replacing it later, I would have used a compression stop if one was available. Did they even have compression stops with garden hose thread 25 years ago?

 

[Jeff H Young]

When I sweated on the sillcock 25 years ago, it was before the counter top and sink were installed. Had I the foresight that I would be replacing it later, I would have used a compression stop if one was available. Did they even have compression stops with garden hose thread 25 years ago?

Sure they had, compression hose bib . As a side note when ever I'm "anglestopping " I try to do it before the rough plywood goes over top or any counter top. especially a tract of homes or apartments. but for a single home or a kitchen just gotta deal with it.
I've sweated tees and what not under sinks but just something we avoid

 

[DIYorBust]

Thanks for the replies. I bought myself some time by rebuilding the multitude valves, but I do want to change them out.

The valves are sweat on one side and compression to soft copper on the other. I'm not loving a compression over the older solder, but it could be possible. If I cut the pipe I'd need to change the hard supply lines and it's very difficult to reach the faucet side of them.

 

[Sylvan]

Ok well not cheap but it's cheaper than blowing through a bunch of valves. So would I just pack as much as I can onto the valve? If it works, won't it prevent the valve end from heating up enough for the solder to flow?

I never used sweat valves for a fixture. I do use C X M adapters and use FIPS valves x compression

This way if the valve ever needs to be replaced it can be easily unscrewed and a new one replaced

 

[Sylvan]

I very seldom use sweat valves on fixtures

I use a C X M adapter and then use FIPS valves X compression

This way it will be a lot easier for the next person to isolate the valve unscrew it and screw on a new one

Globe valves are used to throttle and they normally have a washer that will fail over time

 

[DIYorBust]

Actually that's not a bad idea, but I already have the sweat valves. I may go this route if I burn one out and have to get more.