surging pressure

[mh718]

Hi. I'm trying to educate myself on my well water system and I've read a lot already, but it is all pointing to the possibility that I may be in need of a new water pressure tank.

Here's the situation: I have a well system with submersible pump and a ProSource AW42-01 epoxy-lined tank. The water is very hard. When you flush or use any water, really, the tank loses pressure and the pump kicks in, raising the pressure. It cycles on and off every 20-30 seconds when using water.

As I understand, this often means the tank bladder is shot and the tank is unable to maintain pressure in the system.

My question is really:
1) I don't think this does this tank has a bladder; No mention of it on the manufacturer's website and I'm now pretty convinced that air volume control- deep well rectangular- means no bladder. Is this correct?
2) If I am correct, how do I fix this?

If it's any help, we did experience a lot of air in the pipes for a while, but that has stopped now.
I checked the tank, and it seems consistently the same sound when thumped, with no condensation. The tank appears to be installed slightly differently than the pictures on the manufacturer site: https://s3.amazonaws.com/pumpproducts/pdf/49072_2_Berkeley AW42 Owners Manual.pdf

On my installation, the pressure gauge is on that rectangular AVC and there is a controller with wires at the top. It is a vertical tank.

I have a photo; it's showing up sideways, so turn your head.
And here is a closeup of the pressure gauge/air volume control:
Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

http://sta-rite.com/ResidentialProduct_sr_ws_tk_AW42.aspx "Air over water" means no bladder or diaphragm.

Either your system of keeping the right amount of air in the tank is not working, or the size of your tank is too small with respect to the pump size. If his short cycling is new, then that would indicate that it is no a matter of sizing.

It seems to me that the dull sound would imply too little air in the tank. So what adds the air? I suggest you search for the word snifter as a possibility.

You could switch to a pressure tank with a diaphragm. They are less complex and more popular.

 

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[mh718]

Thanks. I think I found the snifter, too. It's in the lower left corner of the photo. I mistook it for the place to add air at first. I changed it. It's not clogged, but it hasn't fixed the problem. I'll keep looking into the snifter issue. No condensation on the tank, which is confusing me.

I am very much considering a bladder tank install, along with some kind of water purification or filtering system. Any recommendations? The water is very iron rich and has lots of silt. Ballpark on pricing? <$2K, $2-5K, >$5K ? Obviously deluxe purification = $$$

Thanks for your help.

 

[Reach4]

You need numbers for your iron. You should check for hardness and pH and other items. You should describe smells. You should describe coloration in your toilet tank(s). It would make sense to get a water test, but you can get a kit to check some info DIY. I bought Seachem multitest iron test for iron and an Hach 5B test. This is in addition to a test done by a testing lab that checked for those things and much more. About $160 and 1.5 months.

Some will recommend a chlorine injector, settling tank and an activated charcoal backwashing filter. I use a single tank (plus a small solution tank) system for sulfur and iron based on Centaur Carbon. It works well for me. Your water will be different, so the answer would differ. Click Notifications at the top.

 

[Craigpump]

There is NO bladder or diaphram in that tank. The pump is short cycling due to the tank being water logged.

You're getting air because the air volume control isn't exhausting excess air. Eventually the tank can become air bound and spit a little water and a lot of air out the pipes.

If you change the air volume control your problems will soon be gone.

 

[LLigetfa]

The pump is short cycling due to the tank being water logged.

You're getting air because the air volume control isn't exhausting excess air...

It is one or the other. The tank can't be waterlogged and air bound at the same time.

I cannot make out the detail on the pic but did someone put a valve cap on the snifter?

 

[Craigpump]

I guess you missed the part about eventually

 

[Cacher_Chick]

The snifter should be allowing a little air into the tank each time the pump cycles. One there is enough air in the tank, any excess is supposed to vent out the air volume control, which is the part your gauge is mounted on. I would focus on getting this fixed because if you keep short cycling the pump you will end up replacing it very soon.

 

[Valveman]

It sure looks like there is a cap on the Schrader valve. Take off that cap so the system can get air. If the Schrader is leaking, get a new one. If the Schrader does not suck air when the pump goes off, replace the check valve that the Schrader is screwed into.

If then you get air in the house pipes, replace the AVC.

When your tank has the correct amount of air the pump will not cycle so fast.

I would not switch to a bladder tank with than much iron in the water.

With the pressure switch mounted on the air side of the tank your air maker system needs to be working properly. A pressure switch will leak air out but not water. So you have to keep replenishing the air that is let out by the pressure switch and the air that goes out by getting mixed with the water.

 

[Reach4]

I am thinking that a snifter valve has a check valve between it and the pressure tank.

When you knock on your tank, you get a dull thud as if it were full of water, and you no longer get some air coming out of your faucets as you used to. You need more air. So I don't know where your snifter valve is, or even what it would look like, but I am guessing that the snifter valve is blocked, or that the down-hole drain-back valve that lets some water drain back down the well to provide the suction that admits air is clogged.

Just looked up "drain-back valve". http://www.deanbennett.com/drain-back-tank-fittings.htm seems to imply that the main advantage of this is to prevent freezing of a water-filled supply pipe, rather than supplying air to the pressure tank.

I am thinking right now the air volume control has no need to drain air, because there is not enough air.

 

[mh718]

Thanks so much everyone. I emptied the entire tank and then put the pump back on to re-charge/fill it. Worked much better. I agree the problem seems to be with that AVC. I'll get a new one. And no, there's no cap on that snifter valve. It's open. Just a bad picture.

And thanks for the tip about not switching to a bladder tank due to the iron. Now that I understand it better, I think I can manage this system just fine. It's not nearly the mystery it was before. I think I can even install a whole house filter system without too much trouble.

One question: what does that thing at the top of the tank do? The thing with the two wires going to the pump controller..

 

[Reach4]

Click on Notifications at the top.