SUPPLY LINE FAUCET TOILET CONNECTORS

[braidedsteelhater]

I am noticing that the angle stop outlets are available in both 3/8 compression and 1/2 slip joint thread, which are also available as supply line connectors for Fluidmaster, Brasscraft, Watts, and Kissler. Does anyone have an opinion as to which they like better, their experiences with leaking from either one. I need to replace my angle stop ball valves and am conflicted as to which one to select. Just from staring at them, to me my intuition tells me that the 1/2 are a better and more leak proof connection. Any opinions?

 

[hj]

The 'industry standard" seems to be the 3/8"' compression. Normally, I only REMOVE the 1/2 slip joint ones.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[braidedsteelhater]

The 'industry standard" seems to be the 3/8"' compression. Normally, I only REMOVE the 1/2 slip joint ones.

Is there anything that gives you concern and something physically that you see as a risk for leakage. All the plumbers I know recommend the 3/8 compression outlets and tell me how they are better while ignoring the fact that the faucet connectors are almost always 1/2 IPS straight thread and have no problems. The o-ring on the 3/8 compression is so much smaller and seems like a bigger risk for leakage.

 

[Dj2]

1. There is nothing wrong with angle stop with 1/2" outlet. It's just that we prefer 3/8"...1/2" is so 1970s.

2. The flex from the angle stop to the faucet will be 3/8" x 1/2" with the length you need.

3. Leaks are not that common. If you have doubts, replace the flex supply line every year. Also shut off the main when you go on vacation. And don't lose sleep over this.

 

[braidedsteelhater]

1. There is nothing wrong with angle stop with 1/2" outlet. It's just that we prefer 3/8"...1/2" is so 1970s.

2. The flex from the angle stop to the faucet will be 3/8" x 1/2" with the length you need.

3. Leaks are not that common. If you have doubts, replace the flex supply line every year. Also shut off the main when you go on vacation. And don't lose sleep over this.

Two plumbers that I talked to said they preferred the angle stop that had a 3/8 compression outlet over the 1/2 slip joint male pipe outlet. But the irony is that the other end to the faucet ironically is 1/2 slip joint and has no problems. Why did they change the standard? When I look at the rubber washer for the 3/8 compression end, it seems so much smaller and a much weaker connection. Why have they made this the standard? Nobody has an explanation.

 

[Plumber69]

I don't understand what you want to know. I'm thinking the 3/8th part helps with the flex supply line from twisting up.

 

[Reach4]

Two plumbers that I talked to said they preferred the angle stop that had a 3/8 compression outlet over the 1/2 slip joint male pipe outlet. But the irony is that the other end to the faucet ironically is 1/2 slip joint and has no problems. Why did they change the standard? When I look at the rubber washer for the 3/8 compression end, it seems so much smaller and a much weaker connection. Why have they made this the standard? Nobody has an explanation.

Now you are not talking about the toilet. My comments are only speculation and not history.

For the lav, why 1/2 at the faucet? I expect that in many cases, the pipe thru the hole served as both a way to carry water, but sometimes served as a mount for a separate faucet. Or the connection was to a bronze etc casting. 1/2 may have been an advantage, or at least not a detriment. I am even wondering if the connection up top may have been a flare connection at times.

Why want 3/8 compression size? I expect that was originally to connect to 3/8 metal tubing. 3/8 was plenty big. If you have tried to put in 3/8 metal tubing for a lav, it is very hard... too hard for me. I changed to flex, and it was so easy. I cannot imagine trying to do 1/2 tubing up to the faucets.

So anyway, I think the 3/8 compression to allow metal tubing made sense, and when they came up with the flex lines, it was already a convention.

I think the connection up at the faucet was different. It could be soldered, or otherwise attached first.

 

[braidedsteelhater]

Now you are not talking about the toilet. My comments are only speculation and not history.

For the lav, why 1/2 at the faucet? I expect that in many cases, the pipe thru the hole served as both a way to carry water, but sometimes served as a mount for a separate faucet. Or the connection was to a bronze etc casting. 1/2 may have been an advantage, or at least not a detriment. I am even wondering if the connection up top may have been a flare connection at times.

Why want 3/8 compression size? I expect that was originally to connect to 3/8 metal tubing. 3/8 was plenty big. If you have tried to put in 3/8 metal tubing for a lav, it is very hard... too hard for me. I changed to flex, and it was so easy. I cannot imagine trying to do 1/2 tubing up to the faucets.

So anyway, I think the 3/8 compression to allow metal tubing made sense, and when they came up with the flex lines, it was already a convention.

I think the connection up at the faucet was different. It could be soldered, or otherwise attached first.

The best way a can describe the difference is by showing a few photos of the different connections.

 

[Terry]

Almost all new construction is 3/8" compression. And new faucets with build in supplies are 3/8" compression.
Why make it so hard on your self by using an odd size? There is nothing wrong with 3/8" compression. It's the most common size and it has been for decades.

 

[braidedsteelhater]

Here are some of the different supply line connections. I am actually referring to both toilets and faucets.

 

[braidedsteelhater]

here are the different shutoff valve options. Brand names are hidden as I am not posting these to endorse a product.

 

[Atomic1]

I think OP should go with the current standard 3/8" and focus more on obtaining a quality ball valve angle stop and a quality braided supply connector. All of the failures I've seen are of the supply connectors or the valve bodies but not the fitting seal.

IMHO, KTCR series brasscraft valves and fluidmaster pro connectors are worth looking into.

 

[Dj2]

With each new posting from braidedsteelhater, I suspect more and more that these postings are spam. It's beyond common sense.

Terry and HJ, please delete the thread.

 

[Terry]

With each new posting from braidedsteelhater, I suspect more and more that these postings are spam. It's beyond common sense.

Terry, please delete the thread.

I think it's fine to discuss this. I sometimes go to the older parts of town, and on some of those they will have 1/2" IP stops or 1/2" comp stops. I try to have those supplies with me, but sometimes I run low. I always have the 3/8" comp supplies with me.

 

[Reach4]

I am confident it's not spam. I am not sure what it is, but I think he enjoys a good discussion/argument. I think his major point was that he laments the 3/8 compression being the defacto standard, and that he is being almost forced into going along.

For the philosophical/historical discussion part, here is an old lav faucet connection with 1/2 on the left and 3/8 compression on the right connecting to the stop valve. The half inch end is soldered, and it does not have to slide. The compression end can slide, and I think the 3/8 compression at that end makes sense.

 

[braidedsteelhater]

I am confident it's not spam. I am not sure what it is, but I think he enjoys a good discussion/argument. I think his major point was that he laments the 3/8 compression being the defacto standard, and that he is being almost forced into going along.

For the philosophical/historical discussion part, here is an old lav faucet connection with 1/2 on the left and 3/8 compression on the right connecting to the stop valve. The half inch end is soldered, and it does not have to slide. The compression end can slide, and I think the 3/8 compression at that end makes sense.

View attachment 44285

No, I am not spamming. I am really curious why it was decided that 3/8 compression is the de facto standard for angle stop outlet vavles. When I look at the supply line connector, I notice that the main form of sealing the connection is through a metal tube in the supply line connector that compresses against the outlet hole, although it still seems to me that the 1/2 connection is more secure due to the large rubber cone washer seal that is present, while the 3/8 compression completely depends on a sometimes undependable metal seal from a 5 dollar hose made in China. I am still wondering which one is more prone to leaking and why. Thank you for the responses and if anyone else has a thought on this please reply and let me know.

 

[Terry]

I never get leaks from the 3/8 compression side.
It goes on clean, no tape. If there is a leak from a homeowner install, I remove the supply line, remove the tape, and reassemble.
Originally they had 3/8" copper supplies, chrome plated. It's a lot easier to bend 3/8" OD than 5/8" OD. I've installed a lot of solid risers over the years.
And the stainless braided, even though they may have larger ends on them, it's still the small dimension for the hose. The faucet has a flow restricter and the supply lines give way, way more water then you will ever need.

 

[braidedsteelhater]

I never get leaks from the 3/8 compression side.
It goes on clean, no tape. If there is a leak from a homeowner install, I remove the supply line, remove the tape, and reassemble.
Originally they had 3/8" copper supplies, chrome plated. It's a lot easier to bend 3/8" OD than 5/8" OD. I've installed a lot of solid risers over the years.
And the stainless braided, even though they may have larger ends on them, it's still the small dimension for the hose. The faucet has a flow restricter and the supply lines give way, way more water then you will ever need.

I appreciate you comments and experience. And I still have a question. Why is the other side of the braided steel hose connection to the actual faucet in many cases 1/2 inch IPS or FIP? If the 3/8 were better, why do they still use the larger endpiece on one side and not on the other? Are the majority of leaks you see on the 1/2 side? Same question with the toilet. Are the majority of leaks on the 7/8 ballcock side? I would really like someone to explain the actual physics or water flow aspect of this. As seen in the photos, it still seems like the 1/2 inch side has a better rubber seal, although there is a metal circle coming out of the 3/8 compression end which pushes against the outlet valve. And by the way, am I the only person who has ever examined this? I would really be interested in what made the change. You are saying that they made the change to make the connection similar in size to the hose, but the hose could still be small while the connection is larger at 1/2. It doesn't seem like it would affect the connection. Anyway, any more opinions or experiences with this issue are greatly appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

And I still have a question. Why is the other side of the braided steel hose connection to the actual faucet in many cases 1/2 inch IPS or FIP? If the 3/8 were better, why do they still use the larger endpiece on one side and not on the other?

You did not find my photo on #15 relevant? If the top and bottom were both 3/8 I think inserting the tubing would have been harder.

Even if you were to presume that only flex lines were to be use from now on (except for pedestal lavatories etc) you understand the advantage of a convention, I think.

 

[braidedsteelhater]

You did not find my photo on #15 relevant? If the top and bottom were both 3/8 I think inserting the tubing would have been harder.

Even if you were to presume that only flex lines were to be use from now on (except for pedestal lavatories etc) you understand the advantage of a convention, I think.

Still, from my humble point of view, it makes no sense that each side is a different size if one is truly a better size than the other.