Sump Pump and Seperate switch suggestions needed

[Robert Mazzaferro]

Hello: I just joined the forum and need a little advice on replacing a high-volume Sump Pump and installing a separate pit switch. I hope I am placing the question in the correct area.


My situation, I have to replace my sump pump it is time. I have had this pump which is a Rigid 1HP with an electronic switch that they do not offer any longer. I have had great service with it. I also have a backup natural gas generator, when I lose electricity that turns on automatically.

The house when I purchased it came with this system called B-Dry. Which they install 4” or 6” piping along the bottom of the foundation where the water flows into the pit (18X22) and is pumped out away from the building. This system has worked well and it has only flooded once in over 25 years I have been here due to no electricity. (just want to give all the conditions I’m dealing with).

The original system pump was a Zoller which worked for more than 20 years and when that needed replacing, I have used the Rigid 1HP pumps which had worked. The pump has a 1.5 discharge into a 2” pvc piping system which also has a 10-foot vertical lift using a 90-degree angle, with check valve with no pressure 3/16 relief hole in the pvc & there is 20 feet of piping with 12” of slope, so once the water is pump to the 90 angle it is gravity fed away from the building. Over the years we have been getting more water as it seems the water table has increased.

In the heavy season of water (spring) the pump cycles every 20 seconds which I am estimating that with the type of pump that I have and the size of the pit it pumps approximately 60 gals per minute, as there is about 2” of water at the bottom of the pit and the pump is 12” high therefore 10 inches (approximately 10 gals) of water every 20 seconds. (please correct me if I am not accurate). I understand I need to decrease the cycling of the pump after reading info from this forum. The water it is clear as well.

I am looking for the most secure system that I can adapt to my needs. Which would be to decreasing the pump cycling. I am thinking replacing the pump with a high enough volume, cast iron immersible Zoeller with no switch on the pump and installing separate switch like a Vertical Master switch therefore decreasing the pump activation.


Any suggestions are truly appreciated, rely here or email rmazzaferro@hvc.rr.com.

 

[Robert Mazzaferro]

After researching a bit more I came up with these items for the system replacements.... Does anyone think this is OVER-KILL for my situation? I hope someone with more experience can advise, I'm just a DIY home owner.

By the way all the homes in my area have water issues. I heard there was a stream in the back when it was farm land but when they built the other homes they bulldozed over it. So i guess the stream went underground.

1. Zoeller N270 pump no switch
2. Hydro Check HC6000 Hi-Lo Pump Controller Dual Float

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I have the Zoeller and verticalmaster in my own house, and replaced them with new after 5 years just to be safe. Without installing a larger diameter basin, there is no good way to increase the pumping time and ensure that the pump will keep up with the maximum potential flow rate.

 

[Reach4]

How long does the current pump run when it runs? Is it 5 seconds on and 10 seconds off, or what? I am wondering if a pump with less than 1 HP might be a better choice. Maybe the Zoeller 266. https://www.zoellerpumps.com/content/literature/fm0269.pdf

I would be thinking of expanding the pit. I am not sure of how I would want that done. An expanded pit or side pit could let you mount a second pump, maybe a battery backup pump. Is there a dry season when the work could be performed more easily?

I am not a pro.

 

[Robert Mazzaferro]

Thank you all for your comments:

The pump is 6 seconds on...... but because the SS switch is not that exact to turn off the pump it keeps running for another 10 sec. or more with only a couple of inches of water in the pit.

I was mistaken about the time I have had this pump, it has been working without failure for 10 years. It is a Ridgid SSP1000 which I have been informed is made by (Wayne) and it has a Solid State switch. I'm in the northeast Hudson Valley NY 1.5 hours north of NYC, and this pump worked through the flooding of Hurricanes, Sandy and Irene of course, I have the automatic N/G generator connected to the pump, however I did not get any water in my basement, the pump worked throughout. My neighbor across the street basement was a total disaster during the Hurricanes he had to replace everything...walls, furnace, water heater, furniture etc. He was very surprised I got no water. I bought the pump at the big Orange store for $302.00 ten years ago, I still have the receipt.

Expanding the pit would be a major job, the concrete would have to be excavated then the new pit installed and the concrete repaired. All the local guys were willing to come by and give me a great estimate for that install but it would not be cheap.

The local pro's mentioned above, all recommended Wayne 1 HP pump which is basically the same pump that I have currently. Their statements are if the pump has been has been working without failure for 10 years through Sandy and Irene there is no reason to not install the same pump with the Hydro Check HC6000 Hi-Lo Pump Controller Dual Float, just zip tie the pump float on and use the HC6000 switch for decreased cycle time. They all said.... if it works stick with it....makes sense to me.... so I ordered a Pump and Switch. I just have to wait for the items to come and install them. The pump should be a straight swap with no modifications to the plumbing, it's the same pump just newer.

If anyone has a better idea please do not hesitate... I'm just a home owner......

 

[Reach4]

6 seconds on at a time does say you have more pump than ideal right now. A 1/2 HP pump made to work into a 15 ft head would be a better choice.

Add a water alarm. The basement watchdog alarms are cheap.

Keep a spare pump, even if you don't install it right away.

Figure out how you will power your pump if the AC power fails.

 

[Gagecalman]

I've had excellent results using a HydroCheck HC6000 "Hi-Lo Sump Pump Controller" with a manual pump. No floats to hang up and no mechanical switches to go bad. There are two sensors so you can set the on/off height where it works best for your situation and to reduce short cycling.

 

[Robert Mazzaferro]

I would like to thank everyone that has provided insight on my situation. I will stick with the Wayne pump and separate dual switch. I think the pro's said it right... get a new pump and just install the switch... that same pump has worked for 10 years without failure... if it ain't broke don't fix it …. idea. & just add the switch to decrease the cycle times.
I'll post the progress of the install.

 

[hj]

The cycle time is a function of the time it takes to empty the pit AND the time it takes the pit to refill. You can extend the "on" time by installing a valve and partially closing it, but there is NOTHING you can do to delay the time it takes to refill the basin, and restart.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

The only thing better would be to fine tune your max potential flow into the pit vs. the rated GPM of the pump at the given head pressure, but being able to judge the flow is problematic in itself. The smallest pump that does the job 100% of the time is the ideal solution.

IMO, you got lucky if your last pump lasted that long.

 

[Treeman]

Sounds like you have electrical outage covered by your standby generator with automatic transfer switch. They can fail too, LOL.

The next failsafe improvement might be to install a backup pump? Maybe consider using your old pump as a backup??

Selecting "best" pump brand is tough. Ask 10 "pros" and get 10 different opinions. In my area, Zoeller and Liberty dominate the pro/jobber supply houses. I just replaced my Zoeller M53 after 10 years of flawless running "just to be safe" and I never encountered the switch problem that seems to be exacerbated on the interweb. My local jobber claimed that the switch problem was due to poor sourcing and that they have stepped up quality control (who to believe?????).

It does seem that you made your decision before evaluating the advice available here regarding pump sizing, etc.. But, like you said, if it worked in the past, should you change?? Comments professionals????

 

[Robert Mazzaferro]

Yes to all members suggestions .... I agree with all of you... in any water situation the best would be, not to have a water issue or a gravity feed system that does not need any additional equipment to move the water. I just do not want to chance the flooding of the basement. Which is why I am upgrading the pump and switch. I have 2 other pumps as backups already fitted with piping measured, where all I have to do is remove the current pump by disconnecting one flexible PVC coupling and swapping out the backup pump. I can do the swap in 5 mins. The only problem is not being here when the malfunction occurs. I have thought about all the other pumps companies as well..... the realization is that any system can fail at some time. Yeah, the generator may not start even though it has a bi-weekly test run... a new pump could be faulty or the switch could not work correctly. I have been maintaining this system for over 25 years and so far I have had only one flooding due to no electricity when I did not have a backup generator. I made my decision from all the information I received from the members here ( thank you) and the information the 3 professionals that came to the house to inspect my system, as well as my own experience maintaining my water issue. In this situation all anyone (even the professionals) can to do minimize a potential problem. It would be simple if the water would fill the pit at the same flow but that does not happen... sometimes there is more volume then others and I need a pump that can handle it if that should arise. There have been times where the current pump could barely keep up with the water flow specially during those hurricanes ..... I was fortunate.... I did not flood like my neighbors. Just trying to do the best I can do ..... Thank You all.

 

[Robert Mazzaferro]

Update:

I installed the new pump Wayne 1 HP pump and HC6000 Hi-Lo Pump Controller Dual Float. The system so far working well. We have had a lot of water in recent days. I set the switch up to work approximately 2.5" from the bottom of the pit and just before the pipe inlet. The pump runs approximately 10 secs to empty the pit and it takes about 1 min. to fill the pit. By comparison the older pump would activate every 20 seconds and empty the pit for about 5 secs, therefore running approximately 3 times a minute. The updated system activates every minute runs for approximately 10 secs to empty the pit. The newer system reduces the pump activation substantially over the course of the life of the pump and so far it is still is able to control the water entering the pit.

 

[Gagecalman]

Glad it's working out.
As I stated I've had excellent results using the HydroCheck HC6000 "Hi-Lo Sump Pump Controller".
I'm supprised more people don't use them.
The mechanical switches seem to be a problem with sump pumps and you're stuck with their on/off settings which tend to short cycle the pump.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I will be interested in hearing if they are still problem-free in few years.

 

[Gagecalman]

I will be interested in hearing if they are still problem-free in few years.

I put mine in about 10 years ago. No issues.
I also put in 6 more for friends and family during that time frame and no issues.
I like the product. It definitely reduces the short cycling of the pump and should extend its life.