Sulfide Gas?

[Trester]

Four years ago I built a house outside of Cody WY. Water is from a well with an 80' head. My pipes are PEX, and I also have a water softener.

My problem is that I have a very strong rotten egg smell in my upstairs bathroom. I had the water tested at a lab in Billings MT, came back negative for sulfide gas. I had a kinetico rep come out and test my water, also came out negative. When we first discussed the smell he guessed that it may be that it may be a result of gas "rising"? He later talked to the "experts" at Kinetico and they surmised that my pipes may be contaminated.

If I run the water for a couple of minutes, the smell is greatly diminished, to non-existent. There is sometimes a little odor in the hot water, but the cold water is really my problem. During the 4 years that I have lived here, I have shocked the well on average of 3 times a year. In the beginning, shocking the well eliminated the problem for 3-4 months, now, it doesn't help at all.

I have talked to the experts, I have done a ton of reading on the internet to no avail. I have reached the point of "desperate", and would appreciate any suggestions that anyone might have.

 

[Reach4]

"I had the water tested at a lab in Billings MT, came back negative for sulfide gas." Note that H2S is said to be hard to test for, but if you got the sample tested for H2S within a short time of being drawn, that should have worked. Yet the nose is generally good at H2S detection.

Have you flushed your WH? I am not saying that will help your smell, but I think that H2S production in the WH makes a dark sludge which could be somewhat diagnostic. Plus your WH works better without sludge. That can be simple, or it can be more extensive if you are trying to also flush out rocks.

I have an iron+sulfur backwashing filter. The sulfide smell was my prime motivation, but the iron removal was a close second. I have been happy. If you have iron, a filter that deals with both is a bonus. My filter uses Centaur Carbon, but I would strongly consider Katalox Light media if I was making my choice today. I also put in a powered anode.

http://www.moravecwaterwells.com/index.php/maintainance/disinfection-and-testing is my favorite well and plumbing sanitizing procedure. That is more complex than what you have been doing, I expect the results would last longer. You want your sanitizing to extend to your WH and hot water lines too. The WH is a big volume that may dilute your chlorination efforts unless you take steps. Make sure that you can detect the chlorine out of each of your hot water taps as well as cold.

There are other methods of dealing with H2S. Aeration, perhaps in the well casing even, is one way. See https://terrylove.com/forums/index....e-for-sulfur-in-well-water.58959/#post-436271

 

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[Trester]

"I had the water tested at a lab in Billings MT, came back negative for sulfide gas." Note that H2S is said to be hard to test for, but if you got the sample tested for H2S within a short time of being drawn, that should have worked. Yet the nose is generally good at H2S detection.

Have you flushed your WH? I am not saying that will help your smell, but I think that H2S production in the WH makes a dark sludge which could be somewhat diagnostic. Plus your WH works better without sludge. That can be simple, or it can be more extensive if you are trying to also flush out rocks.

I have an iron+sulfur backwashing filter. The sulfide smell was my prime motivation, but the iron removal was a close second. I have been happy. If you have iron, a filter that deals with both is a bonus. My filter uses Centaur Carbon, but I would strongly consider Katalox Light media if I was making my choice today. I also put in a powered anode.

http://www.moravecwaterwells.com/index.php/maintainance/disinfection-and-testing is my favorite well and plumbing sanitizing procedure. That is more complex than what you have been doing, I expect the results would last longer. You want your sanitizing to extend to your WH and hot water lines too. The WH is a big volume that may dilute your chlorination efforts unless you take steps. Make sure that you can detect the chlorine out of each of your hot water taps as well as cold.

There are other methods of dealing with H2S. Aeration, perhaps in the well casing even, is one way. See https://terrylove.com/forums/index....e-for-sulfur-in-well-water.58959/#post-436271

"I had the water tested at a lab in Billings MT, came back negative for sulfide gas." Note that H2S is said to be hard to test for, but if you got the sample tested for H2S within a short time of being drawn, that should have worked. Yet the nose is generally good at H2S detection.

Exactly what the scientist at the lab told me.

"I have an iron+sulfur backwashing filter. The sulfide smell was my prime motivation, but the iron removal was a close second. I have been happy.

I installed a sediment filter and the Aqua-Pure AP904 Water Filter System. Kind of the same thing? I don't have a problem with iron.

" http://www.moravecwaterwells.com/index.php/maintainance/disinfection-and-testing is my favorite well and plumbing sanitizing procedure. That is more complex than what you have been doing, I expect the results would last longer. You want your sanitizing to extend to your WH and hot water lines too. The WH is a big volume that may dilute your chlorination efforts unless you take steps. Make sure that you can detect the chlorine out of each of your hot water taps as well as cold.

I'll try this method next time. I tried to flush my WH last flush, unfortunately my spigot for draining the tank was bad so I couldn't. Whirlpool sent me a replacement so I'll replace and flush during next shock.

When my well was drilled the driller told me to use 2 gallons of bleach. The lab recommended 3 qts. My last flush I used 2 gallons.

What bothers me is that why is the sulfur smell only in the upstairs bathroom, and mostly the cold water? The cold water piping to the upstairs is one of the first outputs after the water leaves the WC.

 

[Smooky]

If you don’t smell the odor in the downstairs bathroom maybe the problem is not in the water. You might have a problem with the drains.

 

[Trester]

If you don’t smell the odor in the downstairs bathroom maybe the problem is not in the water. You might have a problem with the drains.

I don't smell the sulfur until I turn on the cold water. And the cold water tastes absolutely terrible, sometimes I can taste a little sulfur in the hot water but it isn't bad at all.

 

[Smooky]

Are you talking about the upstairs or the downstairs bathrooms or the kitchen? I'm a little confused.

 

[Reach4]

I installed a sediment filter and the Aqua-Pure AP904 Water Filter System. Kind of the same thing? I don't have a problem with iron.

I can't say that product is BS, but I believe that claims made on http://www.aquapurefilters.com/store/product/200953.200975/ap904.html seem to me to be BS. I am not a pro, and I did not pursue further. It looked to me that that was a not a backwashing device, was not as big as water softener, and implied that it softened water. So if I don't buy that claim, I can't presume that any other statements are true.

When my well was drilled the driller told me to use 2 gallons of bleach. The lab recommended 3 qts. My last flush I used 2 gallons.

Get narrow range pH test papers and high-range chlorine test paper in advance.

A lab could theoretically look at your "alkalinity" (not the same as pH, but more of a buffering factor) and your pH, and together with knowledge of your casing capacity, should be able to come up with a reasonable estimate. The test papers on your recirculating water makes sure. The chlorine test paper is also useful to test each faucet and toilet to make sure that the chlorinated water reached that faucet.

I have a 3.75 inch pump in a 4 inch casing. So I cannot use the pellets made for the purpose that can drop chlorine past the pump to the bottom. I try to make up for that with increased circulation time and an increased flooding volume. If I had a 5 inch casing, I would get the pellets for the bottom half of my chlorination.

If you don’t smell the odor in the downstairs bathroom maybe the problem is not in the water. You might have a problem with the drains.

Great point, but would the smell then clear up after running water? I guess so if the smell was from an area being washed by the drained water. It could also be, at least partially, that the nose got desensitized.

I don't smell the sulfur until I turn on the cold water. And the cold water tastes absolutely terrible, sometimes I can taste a little sulfur in the hot water but it isn't bad at all.

Can you describe the taste?

 

[Smooky]

Did you test for anything other than sulfide Gas?

 

[Smooky]

Reach4 if there is something like an AAV , it might be malfunctioning. When the water is run it causes negative pressure and may cause it to close or the negative pressure keeps odor in the pipe. Just a thought since he did not mention smelling it at other locations. Seemed a little odd to me.

 

[Reach4]

Seemed a little odd to me.

I agree. I was wondering if a gas rose and accumulated at a high place. The leaky AAV theory is interesting.

Trester, maybe recruit a fresh nose. You may have become partially desensitized. And most people are not going to comment unless you specifically ask.

 

[Trester]

Are you talking about the upstairs or the downstairs bathrooms or the kitchen? I'm a little confused.

The problem is only in the upstairs bathroom. No bad tastes or smells from any of the other faucets.

 

[Trester]

Did you test for anything other than sulfide Gas?

I had a complete test completed (attached) by the lab 3 years ago. The sulfide test was a year ago.

 

[Trester]

I agree. I was wondering if a gas rose and accumulated at a high place. The leaky AAV theory is interesting.

Trester, maybe recruit a fresh nose. You may have become partially desensitized. And most people are not going to comment unless you specifically ask.

There are no AAV's in the house.

The bathroom drains are right next to the main vent pipe that goes through the roof. The main vent pipe has been a problem from the start. We get a lot of wind here and when it is windy, I can see the water move in the toilet bowl (upstairs only). As a result the toilet bowl will stink. Every two weeks (or so) I pour bleach into the tank and the smell goes away, temporarily. I've talked to everyone (including Kohler) and have not been able to find a solution to this either. The bathroom is on a sloped roof so it it only 18" from the ceiling to the roof. I added 4' feet of pipe to the main vent pipe based on suggestions, did not work.

 

[Trester]

I can't say that product is BS, but I believe that claims made on http://www.aquapurefilters.com/store/product/200953.200975/ap904.html seem to me to be BS. I am not a pro, and I did not pursue further. It looked to me that that was a not a backwashing device, was not as big as water softener, and implied that it softened water. So if I don't buy that claim, I can't presume that any other statements are true.

My lack of knowledge in this area resulted in my relying on a lot of comments from users online. I didn't feel as though it made a bit of difference.

Get narrow range pH test papers and high-range chlorine test paper in advance.

A lab could theoretically look at your "alkalinity" (not the same as pH, but more of a buffering factor) and your pH, and together with knowledge of your casing capacity, should be able to come up with a reasonable estimate. The test papers on your recirculating water makes sure. The chlorine test paper is also useful to test each faucet and toilet to make sure that the chlorinated water reached that faucet.

I will try this on the next shocking.

I have a 3.75 inch pump in a 4 inch casing. So I cannot use the pellets made for the purpose that can drop chlorine past the pump to the bottom. I try to make up for that with increased circulation time and an increased flooding volume. If I had a 5 inch casing, I would get the pellets for the bottom half of my chlorination.

I had read about this device but just wasn't sure if it was any value. I have been droping 3" chlorine tablets in the well periodically.

Great point, but would the smell then clear up after running water? I guess so if the smell was from an area being washed by the drained water. It could also be, at least partially, that the nose got desensitized.


Can you describe the taste?

There is no odor until I turn on the cold water. It is a "very" strong rotten egg taste.

 

[hj]

Usually the problem is in the hot water and is caused by a reaction between the heater's anode rod and soft water. Do you have small black flecks in the bathtub that leave a trail when you rub them?

 

[Trester]

Usually the problem is in the hot water and is caused by a reaction between the heater's anode rod and soft water. Do you have small black flecks in the bathtub that leave a trail when you rub them?

There are no small black flecks. Sometimes I can taste a little of the "rotten egg" taste in the hot water but it is always very minor.

 

[Reach4]

I had a complete test completed (attached) by the lab 3 years ago. The sulfide test was a year ago.

Nice pH. Alkalinity fairly high, so you will need a fair amount of acid (such as vinegar) to drive the well sufficiently acid during sanitizing. Your sulfate level is about 5x mine. I think that is part of what sulfur bacteria feed on to produce H2S. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfate-reducing_bacteria

I was surprised that your water test did not include iron. Perhaps iron levels are low in your area, and the lab did not test for that. If you wanted a water test that would include iron and some other things, I like kit60 from http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/ It is a mail-in test, so does not test for H2S. http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/example-reports/kit60-example-report.pdf is a sample report.

 

[Smooky]

You could take the faucet apart. Clean the parts and see if that helps. You could clean or replace the aerator. The odor could be in the sink drain and overflow. You could spray some bleach in the drain and overflow and see if that helps. You may want to remove the tailpiece and p-trap to thoroughly clean it.

 

[Asktom]

It is possible that it is the supply flexes if the problem is only with the lavatory and toilet.

 

[Terry]

It is possible that it is the supply flexes if the problem is only with the lavatory and toilet.

I had a friend that was buying bottled water until I changed out her flex faucet supplies. The taste was in the flex connectors.

Almost no time and money to change them and see.