Stuck pitless unit. help please.

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chris r

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please advise. i am trying to pull my well pump. it was installed in 1997. i have a 180ft well. the pump is on 150ft of metal pipe. the problem is when i pull it with an overhead winch the pitless adapter tilts to the side and gets stuck. everytime. i try to hold it straight but it always tilts. i am using a 2000lb winch. i have only gotten about 3in of pipe lift before it stick

the brand of pitless unit is unknown. i cannot find it on the internet. it has a 1in rectanular hole on one side, a small hole for the wires, a plug (i think it is hard to see) and a 1.25in threaded hole in the middle.
 

ThirdGenPump

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My advise would be to get a professional in there before you hurt yourself. The breaking on a winch is not recommended for hoisting, it isn't designed to hold loads.

With a picture of the pitless we can probably identify it. There have been some odd designs used over the years and it takes so experience to know how each works.
 

chris r

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My advise would be to get a professional in there before you hurt yourself. The breaking on a winch is not recommended for hoisting, it isn't designed to hold loads.

With a picture of the pitless we can probably identify it. There have been some odd designs used over the years and it takes so experience to know how each works.

i would love to hire someone but am unemployed right now. i can't take a picture of it. like i said it has a 1in RECTANGULAR hole on one side about .5in tall. nothing unique about it but that. can't find one online anywhere. the casing is rough with light rust but i didn't see anything for it to get stuck on.

ideas? i just tried sliding a 2x3 in there to keep it from tilting but it just stopped instead.
 

Reach4

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i can't take a picture of it.
You have no friend with a digital camera or a smart phone?
like i said it has a 1in RECTANGULAR hole on one side about .5in tall. nothing unique about it but that. can't find one online anywhere.
You cannot find a similar picture? :eek: Maybe draw one with a paint program.
 

chris r

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You have no friend with a digital camera or a smart phone?
You cannot find a similar picture? :eek: Maybe draw one with a paint program.

after about 25 attempts the pitless finally came out. i now have a picture i will try to post. i think the o-rings might need replacement so any help identifying it is appreciated. the only writing on it is "ub 205" which means nothing to me.

i assume you have to use a gas torch on the couplings to get them off. is that true?
 

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Weight holds that down against the o-rings. Can be hard to pull after sitting a few years. Never needed a torch for small couplings like that. Just need a couple of good pipe wrenches, a cheater, and a good breakfast. :)
 

Reach4

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That pitless adaptor tank is an interesting installation. I wonder where the pressure switch goes.
I expect those are not current product. There are now nice underground tanks that could be buried near the casing to provide a similar function.

There used to be available pressure switches that connect into the water line below the frost line, and have a diaphragm. (It looks like PumpMD stocked up while they were available.) http://bakerwatersystems.com/products/water-well-accessories/at_the_well_concept/at_the_well_concept may be current product. but I don't find references by sellers. On the other side of the diaphragm, there is a non-freezing non-poison fluid that connects to a pressure switch, via a flex line, that could be in the casing. The pressure switch would be up higher where it freezes, but where the wire terminals were accessible. However I don't know if such a product is available today. Nor do I know what is done today to provide the pressure switch for such installations, unless the switch is put into a pit.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/frost-free-control-fluid-for-outdoor-wells.62827/ was a thread with discussions about the fluid. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/installing-an-underground-pressure-tank.343/ was a discussion of the need, but it did not identify a freeze proof pressure switch.
 
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chris r

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That is a spool type pitless adapter, possibly Whitewater.

Look through the pitless adapters in this:
http://www.whitewatermfg.net/pitless_adapter-brochure_11-15-08.pdf

Do you have a theory as to why this was hanging up?

no. i still haven't found any reason for it sticking. i started pulling huge flagpoles out of the ground today. my wife saw how the pipe has lots of brown rust colored goo in it. now she wants me to replace it with plastic pipe. my question is will the pitless seal without all the heavy steel pipe holding it down?
 

Reach4

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Yes.

You will want to get new O-rings. If you don't find specific size info, measure with a digital caliper. If you don't have a big-enough one, maybe you will want to get one.

Are you thinking of using poly pipe used for wells, standard ASTM D2239 where IPS ID is held and OD varies with pressure rating?

Or are you thinking of using threaded schedule 80 pipe with stainless steel couplers.
 

Reach4

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That's not a tank....that is the spool part of the pitless unit.
He was referring to a combined pitless and tank that was in that Whitewater document. It came earlier in the document than the pitless like Chris's.
 

chris r

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Yes.

You will want to get new O-rings. If you don't find specific size info, measure with a digital caliper. If you don't have a big-enough one, maybe you will want to get one.

Are you thinking of using poly pipe used for wells, standard ASTM D2239 where IPS ID is held and OD varies with pressure rating?

Or are you thinking of using threaded schedule 80 pipe with stainless steel couplers.
probably poly pipe.
Yes.

You will want to get new O-rings. If you don't find specific size info, measure with a digital caliper. If you don't have a big-enough one, maybe you will want to get one.

Are you thinking of using poly pipe used for wells, standard ASTM D2239 where IPS ID is held and OD varies with pressure rating?

Or are you thinking of using threaded schedule 80 pipe with stainless steel couplers.

i was thinking to use one piece poly pipe with a torque arrestor and a simer pump from menards. i hope that is a good brand.

where can i order o-rings? i pulled the pump out yesterday and am ready to start planning the new setup.

i think the brown goo clogged my pump. should i pour bleach in to kill it?
 

Reach4

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How big is your pump casing below the pitless? If it is 4 inches ID, you probably don't want to put a 3.9 inch "4 inch" pump in there. It may be that the thing that was sticking as you pulled was not the pitless, but was the pump. If if it is 5 inch, the pump probably fits fine.

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/pumps-well-tanks/well-pumps-well-tanks/simer-1-2-hp-2-wire-submersible-well-pump/p-1444430533935-c-1489153238829.htm is the 1/2 HP offering

where can i order o-rings? i pulled the pump out yesterday and am ready to start planning the new setup.
You first need to measure the size. http://www.applerubber.com/src/pdf/as568-standard-size-o-rings.pdf seems to be one of the sources of measuring info. You probably want Nitrile =Buna-N. Durometer. I would guess some mid valve like 60 or 70. I don't have a favorite source, but measurement comes first. Click Inbox.

I would use silicone grease or release compound on the O-rings to get that to seat well. I have a 5.3 ounce tube of Molykote 111 that I like for rings and seals.

i think the brown goo clogged my pump. should i pour bleach in to kill it?
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my sanitizing writeup for wells with submersible pumps and plumbing.
 
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LLigetfa

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I would worry that a torque arrestor in a 4 inch casing will cause problems down the road. I have one on my pump but it is a 6 inch casing and when I pulled the pump the TA had disintegrated.

If money is tight why not just reuse the steel pipe? The rust is most likely to be from the water and not from the pipe.
 

chris r

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I would worry that a torque arrestor in a 4 inch casing will cause problems down the road. I have one on my pump but it is a 6 inch casing and when I pulled the pump the TA had disintegrated.

If money is tight why not just reuse the steel pipe? The rust is most likely to be from the water and not from the pipe.
my wife want new pipe and i think it's cheap. the problem is i have to special order 200ft at menards and i'm worried about splicing it halfway. should it all be one continuous piece?

it's a 5in casing at the top but could be less below the pitless-unit -not sure. don't i need a torque arrestor?
 

chris r

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i want to thank everyone for your help.

right now i found out i bought the wrong pump - only .5hp. bought two rolls of 100' polypipe but now thinking about returning them for 200'roll after long wait special order.
oh well.
 

Valveman

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I would worry that a torque arrestor in a 4 inch casing will cause problems down the road. I have one on my pump but it is a 6 inch casing and when I pulled the pump the TA had disintegrated.

If money is tight why not just reuse the steel pipe? The rust is most likely to be from the water and not from the pipe.

I don't like torque arrestors either. Just something else to get stuck in the well. And if you use double jacketed wire and don't let the pump cycle itself to death, there is no repeated torque to arrest.

If the old pump was set at 150', I would not go any deeper with the new pump unless you put on a flow inducer shroud. I would still use a shroud even if just putting it back at 150'. Setting the pump high enough so that flow comes into the well from beneath it is important if you don't have a cooling shroud.
 
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