Strange fault light on Franklin Subdrive 150 (Model 5870204150)

Users who are viewing this thread

PumpMd

Kevin
Messages
567
Reaction score
42
Points
28
Location
Oklahoma
What I think is weird is that this was bought as a quickpak, so why would Franklin send a subdrive150 box, if it only called for a subdrive75 box? I will ask my Franklin guy if he has an older catalog on pdf, that way I can post it on here.
 

Boycedrilling

In the Trades
Messages
837
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Location
Royal City, WA
I will not be home for the rest of the week. I'm on the road,

Here's a link to a quick reference
http://franklinwater.com/media/116259/SD-Quickpak-install.pdf

SDQP stands for Sub Drive Quick Pack. This is a prepackaged pump, motor & drive in one box. It is priced better than the individual components. A distributor may or may not stock them that way. They may only stock the individual components.

The 18 265 referred to the gallons per minute(18) at a head in feet (265).

Franklin no longer uses this system to identify their sub drive packaged systems.

It can be very easy to think "Oh, I have a 1.5 hp motor, so I need a Sub Drive 150". When you only need a Sub Drive 75 for a 1.5 hp motor. It doesn't hurt anything to use the SD150, other than your pocketbook.
 

PumpMd

Kevin
Messages
567
Reaction score
42
Points
28
Location
Oklahoma
I got off the phone with "Bob" from Franklin and your model only came as a 1.5hp motor with a 3/4hp pump end, so this means you still have the wrong box because the subdrive150 only defaults to a 1.5hp pump end(which is what you have it set on now) not a 3/4 pump end that a subdrive150 box can't do but a subdrive75 box can.
 
Last edited:

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
Confused yet? Apparently so is your installer. Some installers don't even understand the most basic principles about pumps, so they really don't need to be installing something as complicated as a VFD. Hope you didn't pay for a 3HP.
 

Boycedrilling

In the Trades
Messages
837
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Location
Royal City, WA
Valveman, I think that's why Franklin tried to make the sub drive so simple. A lot of installers were and are intimidated by vfd drives. At the national level it is disturbing how many installers do not know how to properly diagnose pump problems. They just replace parts until it works again, kind of like car mechanics do now days.

It is suprising how many installers don't know how to properly use a multi-meter and have never even heard of a megger.

Most of my VFD sales are driven by customers who insist on them. I point out the advantages of the CSV, but most still want the VFD. at least I got both of my distributors to start stocking the CSV for me.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
Valveman, I think that's why Franklin tried to make the sub drive so simple. A lot of installers were and are intimidated by vfd drives. At the national level it is disturbing how many installers do not know how to properly diagnose pump problems. They just replace parts until it works again, kind of like car mechanics do now days.

It is suprising how many installers don't know how to properly use a multi-meter and have never even heard of a megger.

I know right? Teaching classes all over the country and even in Mexico for the last 20+ years I have been blown away by how little many so called "professional pump installers" really understand. I am even more amazed at how many THINK they know and will roll their eyes when you try to correct them. I am working with a really old installer today that is absolutely sure that a 42 gallon galvanized tank has 35 gallons of drawdown. There is no convincing him otherwise. I roll my eyes a lot. :)

Most of my VFD sales are driven by customers who insist on them. I point out the advantages of the CSV, but most still want the VFD. at least I got both of my distributors to start stocking the CSV for me.

I got started in the 80's doing spec jobs for engineers who specified VFD's because they save energy. I always try to give the customers what they want, even though it is not what they need. However, I got the blame as these VFD systems did not save energy and caused frequent problems and water outages. So I had to defend myself. The engineers kept saying it was the installers fault. I kept saying VFD's do not save energy and are problem causers. That is why I came up with the CSV. I needed something to replace those VFD's that was not causing so many problems. I am still saying it to this day, and I still have engineers who roll their eyes because they are so sure they know more than me. I usually just go around these engineers and talk straight to the customer. It doesn't take the customer long to realize who is right and who is wrong, but they forget about me when because of the CSV, they no longer have any problems with their water systems.

 

PumpMd

Kevin
Messages
567
Reaction score
42
Points
28
Location
Oklahoma
What I find amazing is that this system went 9yrs before throwing a fault code because Bob said "it should've thrown a fault code from the time of installation"
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
10 flashes are not even a real fault code. Like any computer it is just another glitch. As Boyce said, "VFD's work great until they don't". And "don't" could happen at any time, and for any reason, or no reason at all.
 

Boycedrilling

In the Trades
Messages
837
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Location
Royal City, WA
Valveman, you reminded my of my favorite engineer quote; " Huh, now that I think about it, that didn't work last time either".
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
It may have been an undocumented code, but it is interesting that the indication cleared when an actual problem was fixed. (post #16)
 

Craigpump

In the Trades
Messages
2,436
Reaction score
158
Points
63
Location
Connecticut
You know you're in trouble when tech support doesn't know what you're talking about.

I'll take a pressure switch, dumb pump and a decent sized tank any day of the week.

Old fashioned? You bet!

Hell, I'd drive a model A Ford if they were a bit more comfortable and had a/c and Sirius radio....
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
You know you're in trouble when tech support doesn't know what you're talking about.

I'll take a pressure switch, dumb pump and a decent sized tank any day of the week.

Old fashioned? You bet!

Tech support doesn't even know how to help with a dumb pump and a pressure switch, much less a VFD. They are just reading off a cheat sheet. If ask this, then answer with A,B, or C. They don't even understand what they are reading. All the old guys who knew this stuff are retired or dead and gone. The younger generation are not interested and only know what their cheat sheet or Google tells them. Most of that is marketing fluff designed to get you to purchase the companies most profitable products and doesn't really answer the questions you have.

Hell, I'd drive a model A Ford if they were a bit more comfortable and had a/c and Sirius radio....

Adding a CSV to that dumb pump and "decent" sized tank is like installing a modern engine, suspension, drive train, and heated bucket seats to a model A. You get all the benefits of a modern system with the dependability of a well proven standard pump and tank.
 

PumpMd

Kevin
Messages
567
Reaction score
42
Points
28
Location
Oklahoma
Kevin,


Please see the attached information indicating the 18-265 Quick PAK was shipped with a SD 75 which has always used a 1.5 HP Franklin 230 volt 3 phase motor. The SD 75 is capable of being used with a 1.5 HP, a 1 HP or a .75 HP pump end with the 1.5 HP motor by changing the DIP Switch HP setting. I also attached the next version of the Quick PAK Catalog where the package in questioned changed to a 18-295 simply because they discovered the pump curve was incorrect as an 18-265. The newer catalog shows the HP of the pump and motor as well as the drive used with each package. Also see page 3 of the attached M1560 Installation Manual showing what motor is used with each drive.


We have all of the Franklin AIDs ever produced but, due to web site space, decided not to publish all of them. The Hotline does e-mail them upon request.


The MT-3 designation on the 1/3 HP Franklin Submersible Motor in question was added by the pump end manufacturer. The Franklin Model Number designation is 2141520101 and the date code indicates it was made in 1969. Do you know what manufacturer made the pump end attached to it?

Thanks,

Bob
 
Last edited:

Leeelson

Member
Messages
127
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Nevada
It may have been an undocumented code, but it is interesting that the indication cleared when an actual problem was fixed. (post #16)
After a week, the problem has returned. Amazing how it only happens on weekends. No change in switch settings. This time, the pressure decreased to 20 (normal 50) then to zero for a few minutes. Then returned to normal. Still has 10 flashes. Does this sound like a pump problem?

I'm pretty confused as to what the switch settings should be since it appears there is a range of possibilities for the pump.
 

PumpMd

Kevin
Messages
567
Reaction score
42
Points
28
Location
Oklahoma
There are 3 parts that make a submersible pump work in your case, the motor, the pump which is attached on top of the motor, and your control box.

According to Franklin your QuickPak model came with 1.5hp motor and a 3/4hp pump, you should've never had a subdrive150 box because is can only be adjusted to 1.5hp, 2.0hp,and 3.0hp pump. You needed a subdrive75 box to have the right dip switch settings for a 3/4hp pump.
 
Last edited:

Boycedrilling

In the Trades
Messages
837
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Location
Royal City, WA
PumpeMd, if you think about it, the dip switch setting are primarily setting the maximum hertz speed of the motor. A 3/4 hp pump end on the 1.5 hp motor needs to be able to run at 80 hertz. A 1 hp pump end on a 1.5 hp motor needs to run at 70 hertz and a 1.5 hp pump end on a 1.5 hp motor needs to not exceed 60 hertz. This is what the dip switch settings are really doing. The maximum amperage of the motor doesn't change.
 

PumpMd

Kevin
Messages
567
Reaction score
42
Points
28
Location
Oklahoma
Correct, I found that out on Friday when we I got 3hp motor and 2hp pump, where it only worked at 70hertz.
 

Boycedrilling

In the Trades
Messages
837
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Location
Royal City, WA
Leeelson. A couple of questions. Are you maybe getting a 2 flash that keeps repeating? That would be a low incoming voltage problem. Another possibility is rapid flash, which indicates an internal fault to the drive.

Does the cooling fan work in the drive? That is one diagnostic test that isn't covered in the AIM manual. It can be tested by unplugging leads to the fan and jumpering a 9 volt battery to the fan. It could be a temperature related fault. A replacement fan is under $50.

One last possibility. How hard is your water? I have had the pressure sensor fail from mineral scale build up.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks