Start box main overload trips under heavy use. Help please!

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Richfromny

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I am at my wits end. My Gould’s 2hp 7gs20 is over 700 feet in the ground. We have a 64 gallon well x trol and a 40/60 pressure switch. In the summer only when we run the pool with it’s auto top off, at times the main overload in our start box trips. No water. Simple reset, and it can work fine for weeks if there isn’t a constant draw of water. Same if I water the lawn for 15 minutes. All may be fine, or the main (not start) overload is tripped. Yesterday someone flushed a toilet and the flapper didn’t seat and they left the house. So slow water driain. Came back to tripped main overload. I thought I found the issue- the run capacitor in our centuripro cb20412cr box was out of spec. Actually replaced the whole box. Same issue. No problem when showering, when kids take a bath, etc. I changed the pressure switch when I did the control box, and the breaker is feeding 242v. Unfortunately the running amp draw of the pump is slightly high on the yellow (spec is 13.2- actual is 14) and black (spec is 11.9 actual is 12.7) windings.
any ideas? I hate to have someone pull the pump if I don’t have to. Labor for a 700 foot pump is a killer, not to mention the well is in my back yard. My thought was that the pump was cycling on and off too frequently- it see,s to fill that pressure tank (which only has about a 13 gallon draw down at 40/60) in around 2 minutes. If I use those thirteen gallons in 3 or 4 minutes that means the pump cycles on and off with little rest. any experts please feel free to chime in. Don’t mind calling someone but it’s a guaranteed new pump around here, and if I turn off the pool top off and don’t water my lawn, there is no issue. Thanks!
 

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I am afraid you answered your own question. Yes the pump/motor is most likely destroyed by all the cycling. You just described the typical and planned way pumps are destroyed. Pumps are designed to survive 84 months of normal cycling. Some last longer some much less, depends on how many times you let the pump cycle. Am automatic pool fill is a pump killer. The first time you had to punch that reset button you had already damaged the motor, and you were on borrowed time. The high amps is the proof. The motor windings have swollen from the heat and is causing the rotor to drag.

A Cycle Stop Valve will only work with a 2HP, 7 GPM pump if the static water level is deeper than 600'. A water level higher than 600' can cause that pump to make more pressure than a single CSV can take. If the water level is more than 300' we can use two of the CSV1A valves and stair step the pressure down. Your other options are to use 2-4 of those pressure tanks to cut the cycles by 2-4 times. Or you can pump into a cistern tank, where the well pump only cycles once or twice a day, and use a booster pump to supply water to the house and pool.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you are going to have to replace that pump/motor.

LOW YIELD WELL_ CENTRIFUGAL_PK1A.jpg
 

Reach4

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You might slow the flow to 7 or 8 gpm with a ball valve before the pressure switch and pressure tank.

You must make sure to never close that valve for more than a very short time. You could parallel the valve with a length of 1/8 inch ID pipe to always allow some flow and guard against a closed valve. If you consider this, we could discuss an appropriate length.

Another option could be to use a high pressure pressure relief valve before the new valve. Water heater temperature and pressure relief valves are readily available, and release at 150 psi. 150 may not be enough. I really don't know. You might also add a 300 psi pressure gauge before the valve. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Temperature-Pressure-Gauges-864000

The point is to put the pump into its normal operating range rather than shooting water at high flow into that pressure tank. I am not a pro.

Edit: I wonder if raising your pressure switch to 55/75 and your air precharge to 53 would help. Yes, it would drop the drawdown, but it would also reduce the rate of filling and the current through the pump. If you want to try that, you would turn off the pump, turn the nut on the big spring in the pressure gauge 15*0.35=5.25 turns clockwise, and raise the precharge. With the pump back on, see if things improve. Common pressure switches take about 3.5 turns for each 10 psi of change. Check the cut-in pressure after adjustment. Don't adjust the nut on the smaller spring unless the differential is off.

$0.00 for just that.

Does it help, or make things worse? I am not sure.
 
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Richfromny

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Okay- there is something I’m not understanding, and I want a thorough understanding of the entire system. Firstly, how do I get information about the “static water level” in my well, and how deep the casing is, etc? I’m not the original owner of this home. The control box in my basement has a hand written note saying “7GS20 700 sch 120”
Valveman- are you saying that an amp draw less than +1 above spec for the pump is a sign it’s bad?


lastly, from what I can figure, it seems like I shouldn’t want my pressure tank to fill fast. I see the manufacturer recommends at least a 2 minute run. I always thought if I’m using water at the same rate as water is being returned to my holding tank, so the pump keeps running is a bad thing. It appears now that it’s what I should shoot for.
I wish I knew WHEN the main overload was tripping. Like I said, baths, showers are fine. Laundry is fine. But if I go outside with a hose and water the lawn for 3o minutes, there is a good chance it will trip (but not always).

Last thing. How large is a cistern? Are you saying to take a 1000 gallon tank, and let the well pump go to town at 6 gpm until that is filled? (For like 3 hours) and then the well pump stays off until a float switch in the cistern calls for a refill maybe the next day? Thanks.


I am at my wits end. My Gould’s 2hp 7gs20 is over 700 feet in the ground. We have a 64 gallon well x trol and a 40/60 pressure switch. In the summer only when we run the pool with it’s auto top off, at times the main overload in our start box trips. No water. Simple reset, and it can work fine for weeks if there isn’t a constant draw of water. Same if I water the lawn for 15 minutes. All may be fine, or the main (not start) overload is tripped. Yesterday someone flushed a toilet and the flapper didn’t seat and they left the house. So slow water driain. Came back to tripped main overload. I thought I found the issue- the run capacitor in our centuripro cb20412cr box was out of spec. Actually replaced the whole box. Same issue. No problem when showering, when kids take a bath, etc. I changed the pressure switch when I did the control box, and the breaker is feeding 242v. Unfortunately the running amp draw of the pump is slightly high on the yellow (spec is 13.2- actual is 14) and black (spec is 11.9 actual is 12.7) windings.
any ideas? I hate to have someone pull the pump if I don’t have to. Labor for a 700 foot pump is a killer, not to mention the well is in my back yard. My thought was that the pump was cycling on and off too frequently- it see,s to fill that pressure tank (which only has about a 13 gallon draw down at 40/60) in around 2 minutes. If I use those thirteen gallons in 3 or 4 minutes that means the pump cycles on and off with little rest. any experts please feel free to chime in. Don’t mind calling someone but it’s a guaranteed new pump around here, and if I turn off the pool top off and don’t water my lawn, there is no issue. Thanks!
 

Valveman

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Okay- there is something I’m not understanding, and I want a thorough understanding of the entire system. Firstly, how do I get information about the “static water level” in my well, and how deep the casing is, etc? I’m not the original owner of this home. The control box in my basement has a hand written note saying “7GS20 700 sch 120”
Valveman- are you saying that an amp draw less than +1 above spec for the pump is a sign it’s bad?


lastly, from what I can figure, it seems like I shouldn’t want my pressure tank to fill fast. I see the manufacturer recommends at least a 2 minute run. I always thought if I’m using water at the same rate as water is being returned to my holding tank, so the pump keeps running is a bad thing. It appears now that it’s what I should shoot for.
I wish I knew WHEN the main overload was tripping. Like I said, baths, showers are fine. Laundry is fine. But if I go outside with a hose and water the lawn for 3o minutes, there is a good chance it will trip (but not always).

Last thing. How large is a cistern? Are you saying to take a 1000 gallon tank, and let the well pump go to town at 6 gpm until that is filled? (For like 3 hours) and then the well pump stays off until a float switch in the cistern calls for a refill maybe the next day? Thanks.

Pumps need to run for at least 1 minute, 2 minutes is better, and never shutting off is best. I have a pump in a stock water well that hasn't turned off in over 19 years so far. Because it is running 24/7/365 it will last longer than any pump that turns on and off with a pressure switch. Pumps are made for "continuous duty". It is the cycling on and off (short runs) that destroy pumps prematurely.

All that heat from the short runs builds up in the motor and makes the windings swell. The rotor drags on the windings and causes lots of black stuff to be floating around in the motor. Both of which causes the extra amp or so and the overload to trip on occasion. Soon it will not reset.

Using a cistern will let your pump run for an hour or three to fill the cistern, but only like once a day. This takes all the destructive cycling off the deep well pump and makes the booster pump in the cistern do all the work. You can add a CSV to a deep well pump and/or the booster pump. But normally with a cistern there is nothing but a float switch and Cycle Sensor on the well pump. The booster pump with a small tank and CSV will deliver strong constant pressure to the house, and will not rapid cycle even with the small tank.
 
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