Stainless steel or thermoplastic impeller style submersible well pump?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Sedgehammer, Aug 26, 2019.

  1. Sedgehammer

    Sedgehammer New Member

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    The pump in question is for filling a pond, so will be free flowing.

    280" well
    5 hp pump
    flowing around 5o gpm

    My local pump supplier says thermoplastic. They sell berkeley and franklin water horse. They said they use to sell sell stainless style pumps, but stopped due to too many problems with impellers wearing out.

    Well driller says franklin motor mated to a grunfos stainless steel impellered pump. He also does pump pulls and re-installs and he says the thermoplastic is junk.

    I know both to be reputable.

    So........:cool:
     
  2. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Franklin motor with a Grundfos pump is my fav also. However, Grundfos SS impellers have been made so thin they don't hold up any longer than the plastic ones. The big difference is that Grundfos has floating stack type design where Pentair/Berkeley and Franklin have floating stage type design where each impeller drags on the diffuser below it. Floating stack like the Grundfos has many advantages over the floating stage design. Franklin 25 GPM and smaller has floating stage, but I think their 50 GPM and larger pumps are still good and use a is floating stack.
     
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  4. Sedgehammer

    Sedgehammer New Member

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    Thanks for your reply.

    Just want to be clear, I think you said you'd be fine with the franklin waterhorse on the big pump, but would not use it on the smaller pumps?
     
  5. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    • Floating stage design allows for maximum efficiency while minimizing the downthrust load that is transferred to the motor.

    No I was wrong. Apparently Franklin is screwing up their larger pumps with "Floating stage" designs as well. Franklin makes a good motor, they should have just stayed a motor company. "Downthrust load transferred to the motor" is a good thing. The Kingbury thrust bearing in the motor is frictionless, "floating stage impellers" are not.
     
  6. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

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    I don't think floating stage would matter on a 280 inch deep well used for low pressure applications.
     
  7. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    LOL! I missed that. 280" would be an upthrust problem. But 280' is the same as 121 PSI pushing down on those impellers. :)
     
  8. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

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    I am not sure the OP meant feet not inches or if it is the total depth of the well but if so, it is moot. It is the depth to the top of the water level in the well that matters but the OP failed to provide that info. The pump only needs to lift from the top of the water level, not from the depth it is hung.
     
  9. Sedgehammer

    Sedgehammer New Member

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    Oops, yes, meant 280'
    Hit water at 180'
    Figuring a head of 250' once pumping

    So, with that, are they ok?

    What about the Berkeley?

    Thanks
     
  10. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    For what your doing there is not a lot of difference in any of those pumps. Price should be a big consideration.
     
  11. Sedgehammer

    Sedgehammer New Member

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    Including the grunfos?

    I can get the berkeley or the franklin with starter for $2,127

    Any difference if I was to pressurize this for irrigation?

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  12. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    No difference as long as all your irrigation zones are set for 50 GPM. But if you need to vary the flow rate for different size irrigation zones the Grundfos certainly has better efficiency when used with a Cycle Stop Valve than the other brands. This 5HP drops from 5HP to 2HP load when varying the flow with a CSV.

    45S50-12 curve jpeg.jpg
     
  13. Sedgehammer

    Sedgehammer New Member

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    I may have a cycle stop valve just for safety I think, but I'd run the pump under the cut off, as I want to reduce the start and stop as much as possible to increase pump life. I just need to figure out where to put it, so it doesn't freeze.

    I'm assuming all these pumps have a built in check valve. With that said, why would I want this for a pump that's for filling the pond or for irrigation. If it didn't have it, freezing wouldn't be a problem, as I'd have a check valve after the CSV and a frost free hydrant. Most likely I'd combine filling the pond with irrigation. I'd have a shut off valve on the line going to the pond that I'd close partially till get desired sprinkler output and let the rest run into the pond. I cannot see not needing to add H2O to the pond when I'd need to irrigate my pasture.
     
  14. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    You need a check valve at the pump to keep the pump from spinning backwards. You can drill a hole in the check valve flapper and let it drain back slowly if you want, then nothing will freeze. You do not want an additional check valve above ground or further up in the well. You also do not want a Cycle Stop Valve if you are always using the excess water the irrigation system is not using to fill a pond. With a manually operated system all you really need are a couple of gate valves to divert the excess to the pond and/or shut off the irrigation line.
     
  15. Sedgehammer

    Sedgehammer New Member

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    Reason for check valve above is so nothing can back flush. Very unlikely to happen, but......

    CVS would be for safety incase someone forgot to have a gate valve open when running the pump, as that would be a must.
     
  16. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Most places require a double check on an irrigation line. But that would be after the CSV, pressure tank/pressure switch. If your not running a pressure tank/pressure switch with the CSV, then I recommend a little pressure relief valve after the CSV in case all the valves get closed.
     
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    It is very likely that the water in the pipes would go down the well, and rotate the pump backwards. If the pump is spinning backwards, having the pump turn on could damage the pump. There would also be a delay for the water coming out and spraying of air when the pump started next time.
     
  18. Sedgehammer

    Sedgehammer New Member

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    Leave check valve and drill small hole like valveman said. That way it doesn't spin motor backwards.

    Blowing air for a bit isn't a problem.
     
  19. Sedgehammer

    Sedgehammer New Member

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    Why not just run a pressure relief valve and that's it?
     
  20. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Sure you can use just a pressure relief valve without a CSV. However, anytime you are using less than 50 GPM the excess will be blasted out of the pressure relief valve. PRV's are made to do this only during an emergency, and will wear out quickly when being used to dump excess all the time.

    A CSV would hold the pressure constant while using any flow between 5 GPM and 50 GPM. Then the pressure relief valve would only dump 5 GPM during times when someone turned off the sprinklers but forgot to turn off the pump.
     
  21. Sedgehammer

    Sedgehammer New Member

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    I gotcha. I just don't want that pump turning on and off every few seconds, as it would do without a pressure tank. The PSV would only be in an emergency like you stated just to save the pump incase someone forgot to open the gate valve.

    What size hole would you drill in the check valve?

    Thanks
     
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