Soldering near PEX connection?

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JimLS

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I need to install stub outs for a new half bath. My choices seem to be

- a bracket that holds the PEX in a curve out the wall. Then a crimp on valve on the PEX. Seems like poor support of the valve, particularly when operating it.

- a copper bend stub out with either:
- solder on valve
- solder on male thread adapter
- compression valve
- a drop ear elbow and nipple with valve

The first is the simplest and maybe fine.

drop ear elbow is the most parts.

For the copper stub I have been told the thread adapter can be soldered quicker than a valve (less mass). Is it realistic to think I can solder the adapter on after the PEX is attached without damaging the PEX? I have done a fair amount of soldering but it usually takes a bit of time. I don't have MAPP gas, just a propane torch.

I am thinking I will do the compression valve but am open to suggestions.
 

Jeff H Young

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My home was built 2002 it has PEX with PEX stub outs . compression anglestops with the stainless steel stiffeners inserted. Its worked fine Ive changed a few of them without problems. Most here use a copper stubout with a joint inside the wall.
But you want to stub out copper and sweat a male adapter should be fine I wouldnt do it. buy a copper to PEX stub and then buy a male adapter and solder Id just use a compression stop over the copper. there are a lot of options and opinions to match. I like having brass nipples coming out the walls but only way Im doing that is somebodys got to pay me.
 

jadnashua

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They do make brackets to hold the copper stubouts, and that would keep things nice and stable. Many of them come capped so you can pressure test things prior to cutting it to length and then installing the shutoff. While the shutoff may not be used often, I think it's neater to have it rigid. While I used to like soldered valves, a compression one works just as well and is easier plus, you don't have to worry about scorching or melting anything nearby.
Stubout bracket.jpg
Nail or screw it to the studs, then solder the stubout to it keeping things nice and square.
 

JohnCT

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What do you guys think about copper stub outs and using push-connect angle stops?

John
 

Reach4

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What do you guys think about copper stub outs and using push-connect angle stops?

John
The SharkBite valves have a little clip-on piece. That way, if you later pulled that piece off, you should be able to swap out -- even with a compression valve, I think.
stainless-steel-sharkbite-shut-off-valves-23036-0000lf-c3_145.jpg

The compression valve has the advantage of not rotating on the pipe, so easier to turn those with a single finger when using flex couplings. With the Sharkbites, you may have to use two hands or at least more fingers to turn on or off.

Incidentally, I ran across a split deep escutcheon, which could give some flexibility for anybody who wants the stub longer:
https://www.keeneymfg.com/featured_products/89-Klip-On-Deep-Flange
klip_on_flange.png
 
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Jeff H Young

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I dont like shark bites so I dont like those anglestops either I will use a shark bite but very rarely. I would prefer compression, or sweat , or threaded, And lastly shark bite.
 

JohnCT

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I dont like shark bites so I dont like those anglestops either I will use a shark bite but very rarely. I would prefer compression, or sweat , or threaded, And lastly shark bite.

My first experience with Sharkbites was when I got called on a broken pipe at one of my rental units on Superbowl Sunday at 4PM. I went there with some copper sections and found the main shutoff valve was leaking and couldn't be shut off completely, and the split pipe was below any other fixture. I went to The Despot and pickup up a Sharkbite ball valve, some PEX pipe, and a Sharkbite connector. Took 45 minutes and 40 minutes of that was running for the Sharkbites. I think they have their uses, although I've read of new construction using them and that scares the beejeezus out of me.

I was wondering about the push on angle stops because they would be outside the wall and there would be no reason to ever shorten the stub out that I can see. Worse case is a drip from the angle stop and a new one could be put on with no damage to the pipe or dealing with compression ridges.

Brasscraft also makes them. Just wondering what pros think of them. Thanks for the reply.

John
 

JohnCT

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The compression valve has the advantage of not rotating on the pipe, so easier to turn those with a single finger when using flex couplings. With the Sharkbites, you may have to use two hands or at least more fingers to turn on or off.

True, but won't that not be a problem when the output line is connected to the toilet inlet?

The split escutcheon is interesting..

John
 

Reach4

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True, but won't that not be a problem when the output line is connected to the toilet inlet?
Common toilet flex lines are not usually very tight.

Chrome-plated nearly-rigid "copper riser" lines would offer more rotation resistance I think. I have never put one in, but I am considering trying that next time. I have taken those out, but at the time I did not understand how they could be easily installed.
 

Jeff H Young

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My first experience with Sharkbites was when I got called on a broken pipe at one of my rental units on Superbowl Sunday at 4PM. I went there with some copper sections and found the main shutoff valve was leaking and couldn't be shut off completely, and the split pipe was below any other fixture. I went to The Despot and pickup up a Sharkbite ball valve, some PEX pipe, and a Sharkbite connector. Took 45 minutes and 40 minutes of that was running for the Sharkbites. I think they have their uses, although I've read of new construction using them and that scares the beejeezus out of me.

I was wondering about the push on angle stops because they would be outside the wall and there would be no reason to ever shorten the stub out that I can see. Worse case is a drip from the angle stop and a new one could be put on with no damage to the pipe or dealing with compression ridges.

Brasscraft also makes them. Just wondering what pros think of them. Thanks for the reply.

John
At times I love shark bites! Love / hate thing. They can be very handy. I use them on new construction for testing. Temporary use on stub outs rather than soldering a cap or male adapter. Easy to remove. Definitely keep a few on hand. Even just for temp Use.
 

jadnashua

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I live in a row of townhouses. While I have an individual shutoff, to replace the existing shutoff would mean shutting off the water for 10 units, gaining access to the one that has that valve, and waiting ages for the lines from all units to drain enough to stop the flow to be able to solder a new one. While I could have left the existing valve and put the new one ahead of it, the reason for replacing it was that it no longer sealed, there wasn't a lot of room...so, I did shut off the main valve for the row, cut the old valve out, cleaned the burrs off of the cut piece, and pushed on the new valve. I was able to get water to the row back on in minutes rather than probably hours. I had a bucket to collect a bunch of the water that drained, but all in all, it was the easiest and most prudent way. I might have been able to use a compression valve, but in the size of the main line, those are harder to find, and a little bit messier working over your head rather than pushing on a Sharkbite valve assembly. Soldering was not a logical option.

SO, yes, they do work, and yes, there are places for them. Using them for new construction is pretty dumb.

One other situation where I used one (I usually solder things) was in a place where it was almost impossible to gain access without tearing out an indirect water heater as there was no room to get a torch around the joint to make a good solder joint. In that situation, I used a slip coupling. I cut out the leaking one, cleaned up the ends, then installed the slip coupling, and done.
 

Jeff H Young

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I live in a row of townhouses. While I have an individual shutoff, to replace the existing shutoff would mean shutting off the water for 10 units, gaining access to the one that has that valve, and waiting ages for the lines from all units to drain enough to stop the flow to be able to solder a new one. While I could have left the existing valve and put the new one ahead of it, the reason for replacing it was that it no longer sealed, there wasn't a lot of room...so, I did shut off the main valve for the row, cut the old valve out, cleaned the burrs off of the cut piece, and pushed on the new valve. I was able to get water to the row back on in minutes rather than probably hours. I had a bucket to collect a bunch of the water that drained, but all in all, it was the easiest and most prudent way. I might have been able to use a compression valve, but in the size of the main line, those are harder to find, and a little bit messier working over your head rather than pushing on a Sharkbite valve assembly. Soldering was not a logical option.

SO, yes, they do work, and yes, there are places for them. Using them for new construction is pretty dumb.

One other situation where I used one (I usually solder things) was in a place where it was almost impossible to gain access without tearing out an indirect water heater as there was no room to get a torch around the joint to make a good solder joint. In that situation, I used a slip coupling. I cut out the leaking one, cleaned up the ends, then installed the slip coupling, and done.

Yep real handy in a pinch. Would have been better to use propress I think on that valve but I would have done the same. because I dont have a press gun another handi tool is a jet sweat when you got a little more time but want to solder with water in pipe. Agree the sharkbites are dumb in new construction as a product but for TEMPORARY use even new construction has a use in testing etc

I wouldnt be likely to use them for my anglestops though
 

JohnCT

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I wouldnt be likely to use them [Sharkbites] for my anglestops though

Brand issue Jeff or push connect in general? Brasscraft makes these:

https://www.ferguson.com/product/br...ve-in-polished-chrome-bg2ps19txcb/_/R-7211129

I like the *idea* of these (never used one) for toilet applications as there is a finite amount of piping coming out of the wall behind the toilet. Under a sink the copper can always be cut back if there's an issue with the end of the pipe if the valve needs to be replaced. My thought is that a push connect would eliminate any possibility of a problem with the toilet stub out, as well as making it less likely to damage the sheetrock with flame if the valve needs to be replaced.

John
 

JohnCT

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I wouldnt be likely to use them [Sharkbites] for my anglestops though

Brand issue Jeff or push connect in general? Brasscraft makes these:

https://www.ferguson.com/product/br...ve-in-polished-chrome-bg2ps19txcb/_/R-7211129

I like the *idea* of these (never used one) for toilet applications as there is a finite amount of piping coming out of the wall behind the toilet. Under a sink the copper can always be cut back if there's an issue with the end of the pipe if the valve needs to be replaced. My thought is that a push connect would eliminate any possibility of a problem with the toilet stub out, as well as making it less likely to damage the sheetrock with flame if the valve needs to be replaced.

John
 

Jeff H Young

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The brass craft are good IMO. pro flow not bad either (fergusson name brand) I think shark bite is a good brand , when I do need / want a pushfit I use that brand
 
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