Soil Pipe not plumb/ Cast Flange doesn't "Fit"

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buckyswider

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Hi guys, 4 days away from getting two new knees and I'm trying to finish up the powder room toilet so I don't have to <try to> climb stairs if nature calls. Had to wait for the tile guy to get done (2 month wait, and even then I had to play the "I'm getting my knees replaced card :( ) and now I'm doing the toilet install, which I *thought* I had well thought out.

The old flange was cracked, so I removed it prior to the tiling. I purchased an Oatey 42255 cast flange, which goes on the outside of the soil pipe, with a rubber gasket which sets between the flange and the soil pipe and compresses with a ring and bolts. It's probably very familiar flange to this crowd.

Anyhow, I went to install the flange today, figuring it would be a 10 minute job like others say, and...well, the problem with the soil pipe becomes evident. When I put the flange down on the tile floor, the gap between the flange and the pipe is uneven, to the point where the rubber gasket won't fit. Thought it was clearance with the floor, but after monkeying with that I notice that the top of the pipe is prouder on one side (i.e. not level), so which leads me to the conclusion that the soil pipe itself is not plumb. The prior flange was cast/oakum, so that easily compensates for any out-of-true of the soil pipe.

So my question now: Is there any type of flange (besides Oakum) that I can use to compensate for a crooked soil line? I was hell-bent on using an *outside* type flange (it only seems logical to me to leave as large an opening as possible!!) but I guess I may have to compromise on that now. If it matters, I have to use a waxless ring since the floor is heated (another one of my project many years ago).

Thanks!!
 

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buckyswider

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Reach4

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How much tilt is there? Use a level down the inside.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/JONES-S...-Closet-Flange-with-Test-Cap-C40425/313740740 probably has a similar limitation.

There used to be an inside Genova Products 75158S Universal Closet Flange with Stainless Steel Ring, 4"
like pushtite but bigger gasket and stainless ring. The bigger gasket would seem to accommodate more tilt. But no longer available, it seems.
 

Reach4

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Looks like maybe 1 inch per foot (around 5 degrees). That flange you pointed to looks to me as if it could have a problem with that.

There is a way to shorten this one but its flaps look shorter still: https://www.siouxchief.com/docs/def...nge-with-swivel-ring---pushtite.pdf?sfvrsn=10

The ID matches a 3 inch pvc pipe. There is an ap note on how to lengthen it, but I think it could be possible to shorten it by sawing out a section, and splicing with a 3 inch pvc pipe inside.
 
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buckyswider

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Other than physical stability, what is the purpose of the outside seal on hub type flanges? Doesn't the wax/waxless ring prevent liquids or gases from escaping? I assume there is a good reason- why else would there be lead on top of the oakum it wasn't needed to create an airtight/watertight seal?

Just pondering the unknown as I fret over what to do here. I'm guessing the absolute best thing would be to bring a plumber in for Oakum and lead.
 

wwhitney

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What's below the bathroom? If it's a crawl space or basement (best case) or another story (you'd have to open the ceiling), you could try to adjust the plumbing so the closet riser is plumb.

Cheers, Wayne
 

buckyswider

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it's an "indoor" crawlspace, accessible via the basement. Albeit not easily traversed due to HVAC equipment and ducts. By "adjust" do you mean pushing/pulling stuff in-place, or removing/reattaching??
 

Reach4

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Other than physical stability, what is the purpose of the outside seal on hub type flanges? Doesn't the wax/waxless ring prevent liquids or gases from escaping? I assume there is a good reason- why else would there be lead on top of the oakum it wasn't needed to create an airtight/watertight seal?
I think two things.
1. The attachment would add mechanical support to the pipe.
2. With no gap filler, the wax/waxless would only be working against a thin area.
 

wwhitney

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it's an "indoor" crawlspace, accessible via the basement. Albeit not easily traversed due to HVAC equipment and ducts. By "adjust" do you mean pushing/pulling stuff in-place, or removing/reattaching??
Could be either, depends on what you find and how well stuff is supported and attached. Assuming you don't want to actually move the center point of the pipe as it comes through the floor, you'd be rotating the riser slightly in a vertical plane, around that center point at the floor. So how much that moves things would depend on the height of the riser. It could turn out to be really simple, or impossible, or anywhere in between. Just an option to consider.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Jeff H Young

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Standard lead and oakum it worked before. BTW Buck Good luck with surgery hope it puts you back in good order!
 

buckyswider

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AAANNNDDD...pipe wasn't budging. But the "Two Finger Flange" did the trick! Just lubed it up and twisted it into place and I was able to pound on it with a dead-blow hammer to get it level. So I got that goin' for me! (oh and they sent me four instead of the one that I paid for. Contacted them with no response.)

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Jones-Stephens-C47440-4-x-4-Two-Finger-Flange

BAD news was...got the bowl installed. Put the tank in place and noticed a little chip on the front. Upon further investigation, the chip portended a crack about 8 inches long. Didn't seem to go all the way through, so I bolted it down and filled it up. And it leaked :(

Express delivery of a new one arrives tomorrow...about 6 hours too late. Should be about the same time the release me from the recovery room. Gotta see if I can walk my wife through the install or call a plumber in. Oh well. So close and yet so far...:eek:
 

Jeff H Young

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AAANNNDDD...pipe wasn't budging. But the "Two Finger Flange" did the trick! Just lubed it up and twisted it into place and I was able to pound on it with a dead-blow hammer to get it level. So I got that goin' for me! (oh and they sent me four instead of the one that I paid for. Contacted them with no response.)

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Jones-Stephens-C47440-4-x-4-Two-Finger-Flange

BAD news was...got the bowl installed. Put the tank in place and noticed a little chip on the front. Upon further investigation, the chip portended a crack about 8 inches long. Didn't seem to go all the way through, so I bolted it down and filled it up. And it leaked :(

Express delivery of a new one arrives tomorrow...about 6 hours too late. Should be about the same time the release me from the recovery room. Gotta see if I can walk my wife through the install or call a plumber in. Oh well. So close and yet so far...:eek:

Man thats tough Bucky, Im glad the closet flange went down good never used the 2 finger or heard of it
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Hope everything goes well and you get that toilet in.. my dad had both Knees replaced a few years back. I installed a riser seat and grab bars at the toilet and shower and all over the house. I'm certain that within a week he had me come and remove them all.

Do all the PT and the cold gel packs that your doctor orders! My dad had these crazy cold packs that ran chilled water thru the packs with tubes and pumps.
 

Terry

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Hope everything goes well and you get that toilet in.. my dad had both Knees replaced a few years back. I installed a riser seat and grab bars at the toilet and shower and all over the house. I'm certain that within a week he had me come and remove them all.

Do all the PT and the cold gel packs that your doctor orders! My dad had these crazy cold packs that ran chilled water thru the packs with tubes and pumps.

How old is your dad now. I still picture him from a long time ago. And the way he sounded.
 

Reach4

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AAANNNDDD...pipe wasn't budging. But the "Two Finger Flange" did the trick! Just lubed it up and twisted it into place and I was able to pound on it with a dead-blow hammer to get it level. So I got that goin' for me! (oh and they sent me four instead of the one that I paid for. Contacted them with no response.)

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Jones-Stephens-C47440-4-x-4-Two-Finger-Flange
I was surprised that let you compensate enough. I wonder if 887-GPM would have fit. 887-GP or 887-GA looks like they have bigger flaps/gaskets. https://www.siouxchief.com/products/drainage/residential/closet-flanges/pushtite

I imagine having spares made you bolder with the hammer.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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How old is your dad now. I still picture him from a long time ago. And the way he sounded.

He still sounds the same.. same humor. He's 84 now. I visited them in November to clear out the gutters which I normally do 2x a year, but with C-19 I skipped the spring clean.. and wow did it show. He finally has officially retired. He was doing a lot of work on peoples vacation homes and helping the local inspector on some of the commercial work. He had retired before and let his license lapse, but then took some CEU classes and got it back. And typical of my dad, calls the instructor, asks if the class can be done on a boat.. yeah.. can the class include beer and fishing poles.. yep. I was concerned he wasn't going to get horizontal wet venting.. but when I went to ask him about it, he pretty much knew it front to back, I was impressed.
 
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