Softener issue.

[PeterDC]

Hi Guys, I’m new to the forum and have been searching online for the answer to what I thought would be a fairly simple problem. I kept coming across this forum and so I thought this would be the best place to ask for advice.

Ok so the problem is I have resin fines getting through the taps in my home which leaves a small amount in the bottom of the bath tub, sink etc. we moved into the house around 3 years ago and the water softener was already installed and seemed to be functioning correctly. A short time after moving in we noticed resin beads in the toilet tanks. I read up online and several placed stated that the "membrane” would be damaged allowing resin through. Well I have a Clack WS1TC valve on top of a 9x48 tank with the usual brine tank sitting next to it. I am no expert but I don’t think the Clack WS1TC has such a ‘Membrane’ and so I am now looking for the solution. Last week I replaced the resin and gravel bed with the specified amounts = 1cf of ‘Purolite C100E Resin’ and 15lbs of gravel.

Inspection of the valve assembly, riser tube and both top and bottom screens showed no signs of wear or damage and all items were thoroughly cleaned and put back into service. All seals were lubricated and refitted with silicone lubricant. The tank was filled with water before the valve was refitted and the system was reset and run through a regen cycle before recommissioning.

On filtering the water coming from the taps in the house I am still getting ‘fines’ coming through after a week and two regen cycles. I tested the water pressure in the house and its sitting at 50psi. I have also just replaced my hot water heater and on inspection there was a good 2 inches of resin beads in the bottom of the tank, yes I know I should have done something about this sooner! Anyway….. so I am determined to get to the bottom of this and find out what exactly is causing the resin fines to get into my water system. For now I have the system on bypass and all the taps, toilets etc are clear of the fines. I know the easiest thing would be to replace the whole system but I like to understand exactly why things don’t work and at least TRY and fix them before following modern society’s ‘throw away’ mantra.

Any help with this frustrating issue will be gratefully received.



Pete.

 

[Reach4]

I have also just replaced my hot water heater and on inspection there was a good 2 inches of resin beads in the bottom of the tank, yes I know I should have done something about this sooner!

Before or after replacing the resin?

If after, drain the several gallons under pressure from the WH, and see what blows out.

City water, I presume.

Consider adding a cartridge filter after the softener -- maybe 25 to 5 micron. Bigger cartridge size is better.

Did you check that the input and output lines on the softener are not switched?

I tested the water pressure in the house and its sitting at 50psi.

Water pressure drop is zero when there is no flow. To look for pressure drops, you want water to be flowing. Are you experiencing pressure drop to the shower or elsewhere?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[BkE]

Please verify that your softener isn't plumbed in backwards. Check the flow and the inlet/outlet on the valve. I saw this problem a couple of times, especially with Clack valves.

 

[ditttohead]

Agreed. Plumbed in backwards is the most common cause of what you are seeing. It is easily tested by turning the red handle on the inlet of the clack bypass valve to the off position, then put the system into backwash. if the system is able to cycle and run water to the drain, you are plumbed in backwards.

If you lose the lower screen due to a catastrophic failure, the resin in the lines can take a very long time to clear and can give the appearance of resin loss for months. When i did field service we would carry a dark and a light colored resin. If the customer had a resin loss issue, we would replace the resin with the opposite so the customer could see if it was old or new resin by the color.

Lastly, you should replace the lower screen even if it looks good. The lower screen or the upper screen are the only places resin can get out of. The lower screen failures are very common especially due to the proliferation of cheap junk bottom screens, a gravel bed can reduce this problem. Clack and Fleck both make exceptional quality, and budget bottom screens. The good screens cost 5x more, but they are still inexpensive.

 

[PeterDC]

Before or after replacing the resin?

If after, drain the several gallons under pressure from the WH, and see what blows out.

City water, I presume.

Consider adding a cartridge filter after the softener -- maybe 25 to 5 micron. Bigger cartridge size is better.

Did you check that the input and output lines on the softener are not switched?


Water pressure drop is zero when there is no flow. To look for pressure drops, you want water to be flowing. Are you experiencing pressure drop to the shower or elsewhere?

after replacing the resin but the WH has been on its way out for months.

yes I did drain out some water and there was some fines but very little.

yup city water.

i thought about adding a filter but there must be something wrong to need one?

yes the plumbing is 100% correct, checked and double checked.

with no flow the pressure was showing 85psi and around 60psi with flow, I've since turned it down to see if it helps but no different.

 

[PeterDC]

Please verify that your softener isn't plumbed in backwards. Check the flow and the inlet/outlet on the valve. I saw this problem a couple of times, especially with Clack valves.

plumbing is 100% correct.

 

[PeterDC]

Agreed. Plumbed in backwards is the most common cause of what you are seeing. It is easily tested by turning the red handle on the inlet of the clack bypass valve to the off position, then put the system into backwash. if the system is able to cycle and run water to the drain, you are plumbed in backwards.

If you lose the lower screen due to a catastrophic failure, the resin in the lines can take a very long time to clear and can give the appearance of resin loss for months. When i did field service we would carry a dark and a light colored resin. If the customer had a resin loss issue, we would replace the resin with the opposite so the customer could see if it was old or new resin by the color.

Lastly, you should replace the lower screen even if it looks good. The lower screen or the upper screen are the only places resin can get out of. The lower screen failures are very common especially due to the proliferation of cheap junk bottom screens, a gravel bed can reduce this problem. Clack and Fleck both make exceptional quality, and budget bottom screens. The good screens cost 5x more, but they are still inexpensive.

the plumbing is 100% correct.

my issue with the fines being form before i replaced the resin is that if go into bypass the water runs clear after about 30 second of flow. this says to me that its definitely coming from the softner. yeah I thought about the colour of the resin and had i not already replaced it i would have certainly looked for a different colour.

as for replacing the lower screen, i think i might just have to try that. the screen looked in perfect condition when i took it out but i must say i was suprised that the slots in it are supposed to stop the resin, the resin looks much finer than what the slots would stop. when i emptied out the resin initially there was such a small amount od gravel in the bottom that it seemed pointless. there was probably about an inch of gravel at most! i replaced with the correct amount and hoped that would solve the issue but unfortunately not.

I'm just so baffeled by why this is happening, I am an engineer/technician by trade and have a very practical mind. I just cant see where these fines are coming from but at the same time i cant see how the lower screen is supposed to stop any resin getting through at all. i'm also suprised by how little there is online about the actuall problem, there are loads of descriptions on how to flush out your pipes but nothing really on the actual cause.

I will try a new high end scrren in the bottom and see where that gets me. thanks for everyones input, its much appreciated!! i will let you guys know what i discover

BTW happy new year!

 

[Reach4]

yup city water.

i thought about adding a filter but there must be something wrong to need one?

Chlorine degrades resin over time. 10% crosslinked resin holds up longer.

A cartridge filter is a good idea anyway, and if that filter is after the softener, the filter does double duty.