Snappytrap : Code OK for California? Temporary double sink install.

Will this pass inspection in California under the CPC?

  • Yes

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  • No

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  • No way

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Could you help me understand code compliance issues for California, regarding this double sink install?

The sink basins are back to back, but in different rooms. I've been told this won't fly for inspection, but not why it won't fly. The crappy flex hose product itself has all sorts of UPC and IPC code approval stamps on it.

The sink is expected to be removed in a year or two. The riser from the slab is 2" cast iron from 1925, leaded to a T, then leaded into a 1 1/2 galvanized vent that goes to the roof.

Click for full size:
IMG_1319.JPG

dual sink trap.jpg
 

Jeff H Young

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I like the snappy trap! Your going to have to buy the Mrs. a new vacuum cleaner though. why not bring the 2 inch up and put a double fixture santee. you can pull your permit take your chances and report back Yay or Nay.
 
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I like the snappy trap! Your going to have to buy the Mrs. a new vacuum cleaner though. why not bring the 2 inch up and put a double fixture santee. you can pull your permit take your chances and report back Yay or Nay.

Because messing with 95 year old plumbing can... go badly.
I emailed inspector: he's not happy about the flex pipe, but OK with the idea of combining prior to the P-Trap.
But it's not a promise or the final word.

I'm not convinced the vacuum cleaner trap is actually code approved: their website has nothing that resembles a certification or test report.
 

Jeff H Young

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maybe he will let it slide with regular tubular fittings underneath or abs dwv fittings and a little neater some plywood or drywall to cover up where you cant look right through hole from otherside might make a differance.
 
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maybe he will let it slide with regular tubular fittings underneath or abs dwv fittings and a little neater some plywood or drywall to cover up where you cant look right through hole from otherside might make a differance.

Yeah, the question is to cut out that ply and make it "one cabinet",
or seal up the hole, so it's just a DWV pipe with the trap on the other side of the cabinet...

"UPC 704.2 Back to back fixtures may be served by a single vertical drainage pipe if approved double fixture fittings are used. . . "
 

Jeff H Young

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This is actually approved in UPC? Guess so: https://www.snappytrap.com/faq-s
Snappy Trap™ models # DK-110 and DK-100 are certified by the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officiials (IAPMO) to meet the Uniform Plumbing Code (UPC).​
Cool ! but is that 1 1/2 " trap legal to serve 2 sink in 2 rooms? That room looks like a garage might be penetrating firewall. Any way inspector sounds like he going to work with him
 
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Cool ! but is that 1 1/2 " trap legal to serve 2 sink in 2 rooms? That room looks like a garage might be penetrating firewall. Any way inspector sounds like he going to work with him

It's not a garage, it's a partition wall in a studio apartment.

The snappytrap is stamped with the UPC symbol on each plastic part. That's a local requirement: our inspectors
won't approve anything other than cast iron unless the UPC symbol is on each part.
But Snappytrap is not revealing what purpose the parts were certified for, what use. It's like saying that
10 inch HDPE pipe is UPC certified: yeah, but so what?
 
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Cool ! but is that 1 1/2 " trap legal to serve 2 sink in 2 rooms?

So you're saying two sinks or three sinks in a single room can share a 1 1/2" trap,
but a sink with a common cabinet spanning a wall would require 2".

There is another requirement at work here: California law prohibits the second sink from having a 2" waste line,
because it's officially an "efficiency kitchen", and limited to 1 1/2".
 

Jeff H Young

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Yes I understand that . It dosent mean you can use an aproved piece to complete illegal work . If those sinks were in same room and I think 30 inches max apart I think that could (possibly) be used. BTW type of building could be an issue Single family might be allowed but from one house to an apartment could be another story. I would think fire rated wall? It could be a AHU or a granny flat a little differant legaly from a apartment . Why pull a permit on a sink? is this a new conversion? thats not a sink on either side but bathroom lav? theres a differance in drain pipe sizes
 
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It's a Junior ADU. It's a convenience sink on an interior partition wall in the Junior ADU, in a single family home.

Inspector said the single trap pipe would be fine for a double basin sink, or even a triple basin sink.
But that once those sinks are separated by any distance, even in this case 4", they want each one to have it's own trap.
But then, those trap arms can't be combined prior to the waste line.

This would also apply to His & Hers sinks in the same cabinet.

My option is to file for a variance.
 

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It's a Junior ADU. It's a convenience sink on an interior partition wall in the Junior ADU, in a single family home.

Inspector said the single trap pipe would be fine for a double basin sink, or even a triple basin sink.
But that once those sinks are separated by any distance, even in this case 4", they want each one to have it's own trap.
But then, those trap arms can't be combined prior to the waste line.

This would also apply to His & Hers sinks in the same cabinet.
It's a Junior ADU. It's a convenience sink on an interior partition wall in the Junior ADU, in a single family home.

Inspector said the single trap pipe would be fine for a double basin sink, or even a triple basin sink.
But that once those sinks are separated by any distance, even in this case 4", they want each one to have it's own trap.
But then, those trap arms can't be combined prior to the waste line.

This would also apply to His & Hers sinks in the same cabinet.

My option is to file for a variance.
Well your calling it a temp, Have you concidered doing it right? instead of waiting just do it right to begin with? that could be an option or just do it the temporary not to code untill you can built it right and then pull permit. other option is to plumb it and take chance on passing and if fails discuss what would be acceptable hopefully short of jack hammering and bringing up 2 inch. so there are 3 more options
 
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Well your calling it a temp, Have you considered doing it right? instead of waiting just do it right to begin with?

It's in the wrong spot for a permanent sink.
No future remodel would use that location.

The tenant is rent controlled, pays essentially no rent when she pays at all, and due to covid can't be evicted. This is an ADA accommodation and a permit matter, not a permanent setup.
 

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Ok well keep us updated how it works out. I dont have more solutions right now , Communicate with inspector.
 

wwhitney

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Inspector said the single trap pipe would be fine for a double basin sink, or even a triple basin sink.
But that once those sinks are separated by any distance, even in this case 4", they want each one to have it's own trap.
And did they give you a reference to the California Plumbing Code (based on the UPC) to support this distinction?

Cheers, Wayne
 
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And did they give you a reference to the California Plumbing Code (based on the UPC) to support this distinction?

Cheers, Wayne

Yes, eventually, after some back and forth:

Traps

CPC IAMPO 1001.2 Where Required. Each plumbing fixture shall be separately trapped by an approved type of liquid seal trap. This section shall not apply to fixtures with integral traps. Not more than one trap shall be permitted on a trap arm....
One trap shall be permitted to serve a set of not more than
three single compartment sinks
or laundry tubs of the same depth
or three lavatories immediately adjacent to each other
and in the same room
where the waste outlets are not more than 30 inches (762 mm) apart,
and the trap is centrally located where three compartments are installed.


Too bad we can't read the the and clause like this:

One trap shall be permitted to serve a set of not more than
three single compartment sinks
or laundry tubs of the same depth
or three lavatories immediately adjacent to each other and in the same room where the waste outlets are not more than 30 inches (762 mm) apart, and the trap is centrally located where three compartments are installed.
 

wwhitney

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I do read it as ". . . a set of not more than (three (single compartment sinks) or (laundry tubs of the same depth)) or (three lavatories immediately adjacent to each other and in the same room) where . . ."

My rebuttal of the reading ". . . a set of not more than (three (single compartment sinks) or (laundry tubs of the same depth)) or (three lavatories) immediately adjacent to each other and in the same room where . . ." is that if the phrase "immediately adjacent to each other and in the same room" were meant to apply to all three types of sinks, it would have been part of the "where" phrase like the other conditions that apply to all three types of sinks. But that's not super strong.

P.S. The text also clearly allows a single trap for his and her vanities that are within 30" of each other, waste-outlet wise, contrary to what the inspector told you initially.

Cheers, Wayne
 

wwhitney

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It's particularly telling that the word three appears only twice, not three times. Which is why I divided the clauses up as I did, for parallelism based on "three".

I would say, though, that if the rest of the sentence starting with where weren't there, it would be very ambiguous whether "immediately adjacent . . . room" applied to both sets of "three" or just the second set of "three lavatories". However, with the "where" clause that clearly functions to carry conditions that apply to both sets of "three," I argue the "immediately adjacent" clause only applies to lavatories.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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