Sleeve Sealant

[Joseph Skoler]

I'll be running a new water main using 4710 poly pipe through a concrete foundation wall.

I understand using a sleeve is the way to go.

Can I use a PVC sleeve?

How do I seal the space between the inside of the sleeve and the poly pipe (to prevent ground water from entering the basement)?

I reached out to Dow Chemical and they say their sealers are not recommended for underground application. I reached out to Sika and they say they don't have anything that works well for poly pipe.

Thank you!

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

That's really hard to imagine that either of those companies couldn't recommend a product. We have to use a "elastomeric" caulk to seal our sleeved penetrations. Honestly i use sikaflex polyurethane caulking, its flexible and sticks to everything I've ever applied it to.. but i never really inquired about it sticking to certain materials. I'm sure some smarter people will chime in here about chemically stuff.

Silicone Caulk – Excellent joint movement capabilities, allowing joints to stretch and compress without failing. Most suitable for wet environments and all types of surfaces. A primer is recommended, especially on cementitious surfaces. Excellent ultraviolet (UV) protection and shrinkage, if any, is minimal. Some silicone caulks are paintable but most are not. Silicone caulk is very durable and long lasting.

Polyurethane Caulk – Seals most dissimilar surfaces such as wood, vinyl, stone, brick and metal flashing. Cannot be used in structural glazing applications because it cannot directly contact glass. May stain some porous materials such as concrete and natural stone. Very good movement capabilities, can be painted and sticks to painted surfaces. Typically takes a week or more to fully cure.

Advanced Polymer Caulk – A long lasting caulk that adheres to a variety of surfaces such as some plastics, wood, brick, vinyl, stucco, masonry and fiber cement. Low shrinkage and remains flexible. May or may not be painted, check manufactures literature.

https://www.wccinfo.org/files/5 002 - Caulking and Sealant Information doc - 3-18-2016.pdf

OH.. and one guy I worked with used these mechanical sealants.. But I think it required a cored hole that was smooth. But I've never used these myself.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Joseph Skoler]

That's really hard to imagine that either of those companies couldn't recommend a product. We have to use a "elastomeric" caulk to seal our sleeved penetrations. Honestly i use sikaflex polyurethane caulking, its flexible and sticks to everything I've ever applied it to.. but i never really inquired about it sticking to certain materials. I'm sure some smarter people will chime in here about chemically stuff.

Silicone Caulk – Excellent joint movement capabilities, allowing joints to stretch and compress without failing. Most suitable for wet environments and all types of surfaces. A primer is recommended, especially on cementitious surfaces. Excellent ultraviolet (UV) protection and shrinkage, if any, is minimal. Some silicone caulks are paintable but most are not. Silicone caulk is very durable and long lasting.

Polyurethane Caulk – Seals most dissimilar surfaces such as wood, vinyl, stone, brick and metal flashing. Cannot be used in structural glazing applications because it cannot directly contact glass. May stain some porous materials such as concrete and natural stone. Very good movement capabilities, can be painted and sticks to painted surfaces. Typically takes a week or more to fully cure.

Advanced Polymer Caulk – A long lasting caulk that adheres to a variety of surfaces such as some plastics, wood, brick, vinyl, stucco, masonry and fiber cement. Low shrinkage and remains flexible. May or may not be painted, check manufactures literature.

https://www.wccinfo.org/files/5 002 - Caulking and Sealant Information doc - 3-18-2016.pdf

OH.. and one guy I worked with used these mechanical sealants.. But I think it required a cored hole that was smooth. But I've never used these myself.

Yea, I was surprised also.

Here's snippets from their replies:

SIKA: "We do not have anything that will work on Polyethelene. However, I have attached SikaHyflex 407 Universal Everflash as the sealant on the PVC."

DOW: "Dowsil 758 may be a good option for you. It adheres to most substrates primerlessly. Please note, Dow Silicone sealants are not tested nor recommended for below grade applications."

Haven't heard back from Loctite.

Those are great descriptions of the differences between silicone, polyurethane and advanced polymer caulks -- thank you.

Any idea if any of these will seal around a polyethylene (HDPE) pipe in a PVC sleeve, undergound?

Thank you!

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I wonder if you contacted the manufacture of the Poly pipe if they had a solution? We only bring either PEX or Copper into a house for water service

 

[Joseph Skoler]

I wonder if you contacted the manufacture of the Poly pipe if they had a solution? We only bring either PEX or Copper into a house for water service

That's a good idea.

In light of your comment re: Pex/copper, any reason I should rethink poly?

Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

That's a good idea.

In light of your comment re: Pex/copper, any reason I should rethink poly?

Thanks!

Codes today don't allow regular SIDR poly or PVC for drinking water in the house living area, if read literally. It would be allowed in the crawl space or below grade.

In practice, it may be allowed to make entrance and get converted. AFAIK, it is common to come in from wells with PVC or SIDR polyethylene, and converting inside. You said "any reason". Inspectors in various places can interpret things differently. FYI, PEX is specially made polyethylene, but is more expensive and smaller than SIDR poly for a given nominal size.

You should also be concerned with sealing the outside of the PVC sleeve too. I am not a pro.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Poly is used by many contractors. Its a tough material thats been used forever. I use pex just because I don't have to transition anywhere and its approved for indoor use. Most buildings transition to an indoor approved material before entering the building, but UPC and perhaps other codes do allow that you can run water service grade pipe into a structure, as long as its transitioned right away to approved material.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Poly is used by many contractors. Its a tough material thats been used forever. I use pex just because I don't have to transition anywhere and its approved for indoor use. Most buildings transition to an indoor approved material before entering the building, but UPC and perhaps other codes do allow that you can run water service grade pipe into a structure, as long as its transitioned right away to approved material.

In some ways I would rather have poly coming through a basement wall 6 foot deep to transition inside the basement rather than transition to copper or pex 6 feet down just outside building. providing the joint is accesable Id have no problem as an an owner , contractor or possibly even if I were an inspector I wouldnt want to force a correction.
although for cauking purposes Im no chemist might prefer copper. I dont like putting unknown plastics and chemical together

 

[Joseph Skoler]

Sounds like I'm fine with poly to the house.

Considering sleeving it all the way to the road, for further protection and just in case.

Think a flexible pipe like a drainage pipe would be worth it?

Thanks everyone!

 

[Jeff H Young]

If its dug fairly straight a 2 inch PVC should be adequate. Only issue would be how to seal the ends. Tracer wire and tape marking domestic water, are considerations

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

We use thick wall Poly pipe for sleeves but Mostly when we do directional boring as that pipe can take a lot of abuse. All plastic lines should have a tracer wire and tracer wire should be laid on top of the line but never twisted around the line. The twisting throws off the locator

 

[Joseph Skoler]

Thank you so very much! I wasn't going to use a tracer wire, but you set me straight.