Slant Fin MONITRON electric boiler for hydronic baseboard heat

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hellspcangel911

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Hi all,
I purchased a summer home that was retrofitted in 1992 with a Monitron electric boiler and hydronic baseboards to allow for year round living. I have never seen one of these units before and was hoping to get some advice. The system is quite simple, has two zones/valves, one circulator pump and what I assume is a aquastat. The system is filled with antifreeze and so far appears to be functioning fine. Depending on the electric bills I may elect to switch over to propane in the future.
My two questions:
There is a bypass plumbed in between the feed and return. The handle is missing but its set to open (circled in red in the picture). Shouldnt this be closed so the hot water has to flow through the baseboards before returning to the boiler?
Also, I assume the piece circled in blue is an aquastat and not a valve? What is it's specific purpose in this setup if the ciculator is always running when there is a call for heat?

Thank you,
George
Monitron.JPG
 

Dana

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Using a bypass branch is an easy way limit the maximum temperature difference between incoming/outgoing water to keep the thermal stresses on the boiler bounded, and to allow a higher flow through the boiler (which it may need) than the radiation. Adjusting the valve adjusts the proportion of the total flow that goes directly back to the boiler.

Pop the cover off the unit circled in blue- there is probably a model number which would help figure out what it is.
 

hellspcangel911

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Thanks Dana for the explanation. The valve is set to full open, and the system has been working so I won't mess with it.

I'll pop the cover and check for more info.

Do you have any reservations on using this system for year round use? Any recommendations on upgrading?
 

Dana

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Thanks Dana for the explanation. The valve is set to full open, and the system has been working so I won't mess with it.

I'll pop the cover and check for more info.

Do you have any reservations on using this system for year round use? Any recommendations on upgrading?

Using the system year round would be fine- just expensive to operate.

As for upgrading...

Rather than spending the money on a propane boiler, cold climate ductless mini-split heat pumps sized to carry most or all of the load in the bigger more open zones will use only about 1/3 (or less) the electricity of the electric boiler. Even at CT style electric rates (among the highest in the US) , heating with high efficiency mini-splits is substantially cheaper than heating with condensing propane. The mini-splits also dehumidify and cool at high efficiency, something a propane boiler can't do.

Air sealing and insulating the basement to at least the code-minimum R15 continuous air impermeable insulation (or R5-R6 continuous foam trapped to the foundation with 2x4/R13 studwall) is cost effective, even if heating with heat pumps or propane. I looks like you might not be able to get the full R15 without gaps without revising the boiler mounting & plumbing, but that's fine. Most of the heat loss is the above-grade portion, most of the air leakage is at the foundation sill & band joist. If there's 50 square feet left uninsulated it's still WELL worth insulating the other. Even a 50F unheated basement can be a HUGE heat loss, typically on the order of 15-20% of the total heat load of an otherwise reasonably insulated house, sometimes more.

There are multiple foam reclaimers in southern New England trading in used roofing foam at typically <1/3 the cost of virgin stock goods, and some carry virgin stock factory blemished sheet foam for <1/2 the cost of perfect goods. At 3" most 2lb fiber faced roofing polyiso runs a true R17-ish in performance, and can be mounted to the wall with 1x4 furring through-screwed with 4.5"-5" masonry screws, mounting the wallboard on the furring. With used foam this is cheaper than a hybrid 2x4/R13 + R5 c.i. solution using fiberglass batts and box-store 3/4" polyiso. There some details to get right with either approach. If interested I can go into it further here, but there are multiple threads where it has been covered it in the past.

Insulating the heating system plumbing with at least 1" fiberglass pipe insulation wherever possible is also cost effective, where possible. Don't use cheap thin-walled fiberglass, and don't use foamed polyethylene on any heating system plumbing (but DO use the foamy stuff on all the accessible potable hot water plumbing, and even the 10' of cold feed nearest the water heater.) Box store fiberglass pipe insulation is overpriced and not thick enough. Plumbing supply houses usually carry a selection, but there are web-stores with the right stuff available too.

Before updating any of the heating equipment, run a careful room-by-room heat load calculation using aggressive (rather than conservative) assumptions about R values & air leakage rates. Most load tools overestimate reality by a double-digit percentage, and oversizing either a fossil-burner or a mini-split reduces both comfort & efficiency, and costs more up front.

If you have been using the house continuously this winter you're in a position to run an energy-use based heat load calculation to put an upper bound on the whole house heat load. If there is enough baseboard that it's been able to stay warm, the boiler's output temperature and total feet of baseboard establishes another (usually much higher) upper bound. If the room-to-room temperatures have tracked reasonably close to each other, the amount of baseboard per room on each zone (looks like two zones?) can tell you roughly the proportionate room loads, which should roughly track the Manual-J or I=B=R type room by room load number proportions, but the baseboard lengths can't tell you the total heat load.

Do NOT leave the load calculations up to an HVAC pro! The track record of the industry is abyssmal. They make their money by selling and installing equipment, and are overly conservative in their load calculation methods, opting to avoid the 5AM call from the shivering irate customer on the coldest night of the heater at all costs (your costs.) If using a third party for that service, use a registered professional engineer or RESNET rater, someone who makes their living and reputation on the accuracy of their numbers. In my neighborhood that service runs between $500-1000 for a decent sized house with a dozen or more rooms, but it'll usually save you more than that just in the cost-adder for oversized equipment.
 
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hellspcangel911

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Dana, a lot of good information in your last post. I actually installed a 36k BTU mini split in the main room (16'x35') primarily for AC in the summer as the other rooms have window units, but it certainly should help with the heating cost in the winter.
I will follow your lead on insulating the basement/ garage (where the boiler is). The ceiling of the basement has no insulation and as you can see from the photo none of the pipes have insulation. I'm going to see if there are any state funds or efficiency programs to help offset the cost.
 

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A 3 ton air conditioner for a (16' x 35'=)560' space is probably ~5-6x oversized(!) for the cooling load, even if there's full west-facing window and only R13 for attic insulation! Most homes in this region have a cooling load/floor area ratio of about a ton per 1500- 2000' of conditioned space. Even in the hot sticky gulf coast it's not much less than that, as seen in Allison Bailes' Manual-J plot:

Bailes%20graph%20for%20Manual%20J%20blog.preview.png


Cold-climate 36K mini-splits with more sophisticated valving on the compressors will deliver over 40,000 BTU/hr in heating mode at +5F, but those designed primarily for cooling might be only half that. What make & model is yours?
 

MACPLUMB

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The piece circled in blue is a flow switch to keep the Boiler from Firing or turning on if for some reason
the circulator Pump is not running or working, other wise your boiler could melt down or blow up !
 

Dana

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That was MASTERPLUMB77 who IDed the flow swich.

The current version of that Pioneer has a AHRI rated capacity of 21,400 BTU/hr @ +17F (about half what a 3-ton cold-climate mini-split would have) but an respectable HSPF of 10.0 (=seasonal average efficiency about 2.9x that of the boiler, if sized appropriately for the load.) From the short-sheet brochure it looks like it has about a 3:1 turn down ratio, which is way better than non-modulating heat pump, but pretty low compared to more expensive state of the art units.

With modulating systems bigger is not better. If it's oversized to the point that it never/rarely modulates it takes a huge hit in efficinecy. Modulating in the lower half of their range during low load periods is FAR more efficient than cycling on/off at it's minimum speed, even though at minimum speed the steady state efficiency is usually the highest. Every time the compressor has to spin up it takes ~8-10 minutes to reach it's steady state efficiency, using more power during the spin-up than it would if just modulating along at minimum speed. At your level of oversizing it's probably not going to hit it's SEER numbers and may even have problems dehumdifying adequately during lower cooling load periods, but in heating mode it'll still be 2x as efficient as the boiler even when cycling, even if not quite making it's seasonal efficiency. The best efficiency (in either cooling or heating mode) is to "set and forget" the temperature, bumping it up or down a degree or two at a time for comfort as-needed. That approach delivers more modulating, less cycling and overall better efficiency than using overnight setbacks and having to run at max speed/lowest-efficiency during the recovery ramp.

There's always some offset between the sensed temperature at the head and the average room temp, and that offset increases with load- bigger whan it's cold out than when it's only 40F outside. Don't be surprised if you need to at 80F or higher to maintain 70F when it's 25F outside.

Since this unit isn't designed for extensive operation at low/very-low temperatures there can be issues with defrost ice build up in the bottom pan of the compressor unit during weeks where outdoor temps NEVER rise above freezing, so pay attention to that. If you need to you can defrost the pan with a hair dryer if the ice is building up to where it might interfere with the fan. (Most cold-climate mini-splits have pan heaters that come on during defrost cycles to keep that from happening.)
 

hellspcangel911

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Thanks for that very informative post. I had a HVAC guy come out and he sized it for a 30,000 btu LG unit. Truth is I had this Pioneer unit left over from a project that went sideways so it seemed like a good fit. So far the unit has worked extremely well, and its relatively inexpensive. I have the condensor set up on a base under the 1st floor balcony so its off the ground and protected from the elements. Ill keep an eye on the pan though.
 
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